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A lot of code is treated like a black box. For example, can you describe me how ssh works other than schematically? Do you know the details of the cryptographic

A lot of code is treated like a black box. For example, can you describe me how ssh works other than schematically? Do you know the details of the cryptographic bits? What you asked for in terms of the fundamental numerical algorithms like FEM is somewhat close to this. They hopefully (especially if they are trying to get a graduate degree) should be able to schematically describe it, but in no way should every scientist have to reinvent FEM or finite difference methods again and again just like people shouldn't implement their own crypto: it can be rather hairy and making a mistake could be disastrous. Writing complicated algorithms should be left to experts who can be trusted.

a1369209993 8y ago
> Writing complicated algorithms should be left to experts who can be trusted. How exactly do you propose we get those experts, if colleges aren't capable of training them?
- esmi 8y ago
  This may have been the case when this article was written but I don’t think it’s the case now. Many universities have graduate and undergraduate computational science programs now. https://www.siam.org/Students-Education/Resources/For-Undergraduate-Students/Detail/graduate-and-undergraduate-programs-in-computational-science https://www.siam.org/Students-Education/Resources/For-Underg...
- wenc 8y ago
  > How exactly do you propose we get those experts, if colleges aren't capable of training them? In the majority of cases, colleges (undergrad) aren't in fact capable of training them. The material is too specialized for undergrad. However colleges can prepare those who are talented and interested in the subject matter for further studies. Many experts in numerical analysis start specializing in graduate school, and then acquire their expertise through postdocs, academia and industry experience.
bamboozled 8y ago
Nooberim, I think many people could actually explain (in gross detail) how SSH works by the way.
GlenTheMachine 8y ago
noobermin, I don't think this is an accurate comparison, for a few reasons. First, I'm not proposing that engineers need to write their own FEM tools. I am proposing that engineers understand how FEM works, so that they can understand where it can fail. I would not expect an IT security expert to write his own ssh, but I would expect him to understand the ways in which ssh can fail. But second, ssh is not like FEM. With ssh, once you have a solid implementation, it sort of doesn't matter what data you put through it. But the issue with FEM analysis is that every FEM model is different, and the generation of those models is almost always algorithmic, not manual. An engineer should have either a freat intuitive feel for how well a FEM model will match reality, or straightforward mathematical ways to double-check the output of an FEM analysis.

a1369209993 8y ago

> Writing complicated algorithms should be left to experts who can be trusted. How exactly do you propose we get those experts, if colleges aren't capable of training them?

esmi 8y ago
This may have been the case when this article was written but I don’t think it’s the case now. Many universities have graduate and undergraduate computational science programs now. https://www.siam.org/Students-Education/Resources/For-Undergraduate-Students/Detail/graduate-and-undergraduate-programs-in-computational-science https://www.siam.org/Students-Education/Resources/For-Underg...
wenc 8y ago
> How exactly do you propose we get those experts, if colleges aren't capable of training them? In the majority of cases, colleges (undergrad) aren't in fact capable of training them. The material is too specialized for undergrad. However colleges can prepare those who are talented and interested in the subject matter for further studies. Many experts in numerical analysis start specializing in graduate school, and then acquire their expertise through postdocs, academia and industry experience.

bamboozled 8y ago

Nooberim, I think many people could actually explain (in gross detail) how SSH works by the way.

GlenTheMachine 8y ago

noobermin, I don't think this is an accurate comparison, for a few reasons. First, I'm not proposing that engineers need to write their own FEM tools. I am proposing that engineers understand how FEM works, so that they can understand where it can fail. I would not expect an IT security expert to write his own ssh, but I would expect him to understand the ways in which ssh can fail. But second, ssh is not like FEM. With ssh, once you have a solid implementation, it sort of doesn't matter what data you put through it. But the issue with FEM analysis is that every FEM model is different, and the generation of those models is almost always algorithmic, not manual. An engineer should have either a freat intuitive feel for how well a FEM model will match reality, or straightforward mathematical ways to double-check the output of an FEM analysis.