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This feature doesn’t enable sync. That’s something that members of the Chrome team have been patiently trying to explain to Matthew Green on Twitter for several

This feature doesn’t enable sync. That’s something that members of the Chrome team have been patiently trying to explain to Matthew Green on Twitter for several days now. [0] https://twitter.com/__apf__/status/1043505744144826369?s=21 https://twitter.com/__apf__/status/1043505744144826369?s=21

swsieber 8y ago
From the response quoted in the article: So in theory your data should remain local That doesn't sound very reassuring to me. Especially long term.
- magicalist 8y ago
  > response quoted in the article tbf, this is followed by > This is my paraphrase
  - swsieber 8y ago
    Wow, I don't know how I missed that. Thank you. (Side note sort of related from another related article - apparently you can opt-out of the unified login, but the flag that lets you opt-out is broken as of chrome canary 71)
vermilingua 8y ago
Did you even read the article? He stated several times that the problem isn’t that sync is or isn’t enabled after the change; it’s the silent push of an update that directly violates user consent, and it widens the mouth of the user funnel-trap by quite a lot.
- danudey 8y ago
  Also, the fact that they've gone from "The user decides when to log in, and when to sync" to "We decide when to log in but the user decides when to sync" doesn't inspire trust that they won't soon move to "We decide when to log in or sync".
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
0x0 8y ago
It shows a big blue banner (or is it a button? I don't dare click it) announcing the current state as "Sync as <username>". If the developers need to explain this repeatedly over twitter to a professional, what impression do you think normal users who don't follow a niche twitter discussion get?
- heartbreak 8y ago
  > what impression do you think normal users who don't follow a niche twitter discussion get? I imagine they don’t care one way or the other.
  - 0x0 8y ago
    How little you think of people.
    - heartbreak 8y ago
      I think most people have more important things to do than worry about whether Google knows where they’ve been online. Edit: To clarify, I care about whether Google knows where I've been online. That's why I don't use Chrome. I just don't think most people care.
      - GW150914 8y ago
        I’m sure people at FaceBook said the same smug things until they crossed a line they never saw coming, and now it’s all congressional hearings and “heartfelt” apologies. It’s true, you can dick a lot of people over for a long time, but you’re just breeding backlash. It will come, in waves, and if your history is defined by a kind of arrogant dismissal of their concerns you’ll be screwed.
      - sathackr 8y ago
        If it were only that simple. Now that Google knows, who else can find out? Someone Google trusts? Someone that pays Google enough money? Lets sell your browsing data to whoever wants to buy it. What kind of risks would that create for you and your family?
rhizome 8y ago
Well I went to turn this login thing off and the only way to do it was to click a button under the heading "Sync" that said "Turn Off." But if these things are unrelated, I guess we'll just have to chalk that up to Google's famously shitty product management and design skills.
- joshuamorton 8y ago
  Sync and log in are two unrelated settings. They were never related (except that you had to be logged in to be able to sync). You could always be logged in and not sync. You just had previously chosen to be logged in and synced. By disabling syncing, you turned off a feature that you previously had to have opted in to.
  - djrogers 8y ago
    No, previously if you logged in sync was enabled - TFA and googles own privacy policy explain this quite clearly.
    - joshuamorton 8y ago
      I'm pretty sure you could still turn it off while remaining logged in.
      - cbo100 8y ago
        Nope, clicking "Turn Off" under sync says: > This will sign you out of your Google accounts. And sure enough, it signs you out of gmail and the browser. So it's sign in to the browser, or no gmail for you.
      - jiggunjer 8y ago
        You could uncheck the boxes, but by default they were all checked and everything started syncing the moment you signed in. I remember because it bothered me to have to wipe my passwords from some random pc I was using just because I wanted my bookmarks.
  - 8y ago
Twirrim 8y ago
It doesn't for _now_. Which is no small part of his point. The next step is to automatically turn on sync etc, which is an easier step now people will start to be used to the idea they're automatically signed in to stuff in Chrome. The main thrust though, is that this doesn't actually solve anything for end users that the Google Chrome team says it does. There appears to be absolutely no benefit in turning this on.
- reaperducer 8y ago
  The main thrust though, is that this doesn't actually solve anything for end users that the Google Chrome team says it does. There appears to be absolutely no benefit in turning this on. Over the last year or so, it feels more and more like Google, as a company, is getting desperate. Like it feels the external tide of popular opinion turning against it. But rather than mend its ways, a decision has been made somewhere to slurp up as much information as possible as quickly and quietly as possible, before it all comes tumbling down around it. I wonder if GDPR was the turning point. Even my boss, who on a computer literacy scale of Linda Lovelace to Ada Lovelace ranks near the bottom of the scale, asked me to explain GDPR to her.
  - mtgx 8y ago
    I think it was also more advertisers switching to facebook and new ones giving fb ads a try first and not even considering Google ads (btw the rebranding from Google adworfs is another sign that Google is losing new advertisers to FB and yet another thing pointing to that desperation). This ultimately affects Google's future growth and it's why you'll see Google do more such "desperate" moves like trying to become a military contractor, building its own iPhone-like phones, tracking users more aggressively, and I imagine android users will soon see os-wide ads, too.
    - fencepost 8y ago
      I imagine android users will soon see os-wide ads, too. Except they won't be OS-wide, they'll be Play Services wide and mandatory if you're an vendor including Play Services. If you don't want Google's ads, you can go do your own thing on AOSP like Amazon and other largely-flopped attempts.
sha666sum 8y ago
He understood it and it's mentioned there in the blog post.
watwut 8y ago
Reading that thread, Green knows this and his argument is more subtle then that.
xg15 8y ago
And as he describes in the blog, this fact is utterly irrelevant.
callmeal 8y ago
For now. The next step in the dark pattern is to note the "User confusion that arises when chrome is logged in to the account, but the data is not synced", and automatically turn on sync.
breatheoften 8y ago
I’m wondering where the source of truth for the sync setting is stored. If I enable sync on one chrome browser — then in another chrome browser on another device log into gmail (triggering chrome login) — will browser history sync be enabled on that second device?

swsieber 8y ago

From the response quoted in the article: So in theory your data should remain local That doesn't sound very reassuring to me. Especially long term.

magicalist 8y ago
> response quoted in the article tbf, this is followed by > This is my paraphrase
- swsieber 8y ago
  Wow, I don't know how I missed that. Thank you. (Side note sort of related from another related article - apparently you can opt-out of the unified login, but the flag that lets you opt-out is broken as of chrome canary 71)

vermilingua 8y ago

Did you even read the article? He stated several times that the problem isn’t that sync is or isn’t enabled after the change; it’s the silent push of an update that directly violates user consent, and it widens the mouth of the user funnel-trap by quite a lot.

danudey 8y ago
Also, the fact that they've gone from "The user decides when to log in, and when to sync" to "We decide when to log in but the user decides when to sync" doesn't inspire trust that they won't soon move to "We decide when to log in or sync".

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

0x0 8y ago

It shows a big blue banner (or is it a button? I don't dare click it) announcing the current state as "Sync as <username>". If the developers need to explain this repeatedly over twitter to a professional, what impression do you think normal users who don't follow a niche twitter discussion get?

heartbreak 8y ago
> what impression do you think normal users who don't follow a niche twitter discussion get? I imagine they don’t care one way or the other.
- 0x0 8y ago
  How little you think of people.
  - heartbreak 8y ago
    I think most people have more important things to do than worry about whether Google knows where they’ve been online. Edit: To clarify, I care about whether Google knows where I've been online. That's why I don't use Chrome. I just don't think most people care.
    - GW150914 8y ago
      I’m sure people at FaceBook said the same smug things until they crossed a line they never saw coming, and now it’s all congressional hearings and “heartfelt” apologies. It’s true, you can dick a lot of people over for a long time, but you’re just breeding backlash. It will come, in waves, and if your history is defined by a kind of arrogant dismissal of their concerns you’ll be screwed.
    - sathackr 8y ago
      If it were only that simple. Now that Google knows, who else can find out? Someone Google trusts? Someone that pays Google enough money? Lets sell your browsing data to whoever wants to buy it. What kind of risks would that create for you and your family?

rhizome 8y ago

Well I went to turn this login thing off and the only way to do it was to click a button under the heading "Sync" that said "Turn Off." But if these things are unrelated, I guess we'll just have to chalk that up to Google's famously shitty product management and design skills.

joshuamorton 8y ago
Sync and log in are two unrelated settings. They were never related (except that you had to be logged in to be able to sync). You could always be logged in and not sync. You just had previously chosen to be logged in and synced. By disabling syncing, you turned off a feature that you previously had to have opted in to.
- djrogers 8y ago
  No, previously if you logged in sync was enabled - TFA and googles own privacy policy explain this quite clearly.
  - joshuamorton 8y ago
    I'm pretty sure you could still turn it off while remaining logged in.
    - cbo100 8y ago
      Nope, clicking "Turn Off" under sync says: > This will sign you out of your Google accounts. And sure enough, it signs you out of gmail and the browser. So it's sign in to the browser, or no gmail for you.
    - jiggunjer 8y ago
      You could uncheck the boxes, but by default they were all checked and everything started syncing the moment you signed in. I remember because it bothered me to have to wipe my passwords from some random pc I was using just because I wanted my bookmarks.
- 8y ago

Twirrim 8y ago

It doesn't for _now_. Which is no small part of his point. The next step is to automatically turn on sync etc, which is an easier step now people will start to be used to the idea they're automatically signed in to stuff in Chrome. The main thrust though, is that this doesn't actually solve anything for end users that the Google Chrome team says it does. There appears to be absolutely no benefit in turning this on.

reaperducer 8y ago
The main thrust though, is that this doesn't actually solve anything for end users that the Google Chrome team says it does. There appears to be absolutely no benefit in turning this on. Over the last year or so, it feels more and more like Google, as a company, is getting desperate. Like it feels the external tide of popular opinion turning against it. But rather than mend its ways, a decision has been made somewhere to slurp up as much information as possible as quickly and quietly as possible, before it all comes tumbling down around it. I wonder if GDPR was the turning point. Even my boss, who on a computer literacy scale of Linda Lovelace to Ada Lovelace ranks near the bottom of the scale, asked me to explain GDPR to her.
- mtgx 8y ago
  I think it was also more advertisers switching to facebook and new ones giving fb ads a try first and not even considering Google ads (btw the rebranding from Google adworfs is another sign that Google is losing new advertisers to FB and yet another thing pointing to that desperation). This ultimately affects Google's future growth and it's why you'll see Google do more such "desperate" moves like trying to become a military contractor, building its own iPhone-like phones, tracking users more aggressively, and I imagine android users will soon see os-wide ads, too.
  - fencepost 8y ago
    I imagine android users will soon see os-wide ads, too. Except they won't be OS-wide, they'll be Play Services wide and mandatory if you're an vendor including Play Services. If you don't want Google's ads, you can go do your own thing on AOSP like Amazon and other largely-flopped attempts.

sha666sum 8y ago

He understood it and it's mentioned there in the blog post.

watwut 8y ago

Reading that thread, Green knows this and his argument is more subtle then that.

xg15 8y ago

And as he describes in the blog, this fact is utterly irrelevant.

callmeal 8y ago

For now. The next step in the dark pattern is to note the "User confusion that arises when chrome is logged in to the account, but the data is not synced", and automatically turn on sync.

breatheoften 8y ago

I’m wondering where the source of truth for the sync setting is stored. If I enable sync on one chrome browser — then in another chrome browser on another device log into gmail (triggering chrome login) — will browser history sync be enabled on that second device?