4 ms·

That's my concern as well. I love the idea of home automation, but I don't want someone else to have that data. It sucks, but we're the minority here.

by lykr0n 8y ago

acidburnNSA 8y ago
We're all in luck because the Home Assistant community [1] is on it. It's still a bit of a tinkerer's domain but things are rapidly evolving and becoming more user friendly. [1] https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2018/09/17/thinking-big/ https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2018/09/17/thinking-big/
- kazen44 8y ago
  Also, IKEA has simple, but very effective home automation (lighting and plugs for now though more will come) that is dead simple to use and can work without an internet connection[1] Also, home assistant integration is dead easy and it's very cheap compared to comparable products. (Especially because amazon's offerings are vastly overpriced in countries where they have no locations). https://www.iot-tests.org/2017/04/ikea-tradfri-a-smart-light-in-the-darkness-of-iot-security/ https://www.iot-tests.org/2017/04/ikea-tradfri-a-smart-light...
  - tfha 8y ago
    "Works without an Internet connection" That's all I want. Why did the first two generations of smart home equipment require a cloud? That's harder to develop. blegh
    - CamperBob2 8y ago
      Because good luck getting VC funding for anything that doesn't imprison the user in your company's cloud.
      - kazen44 8y ago
        companies like IKEA and phillip's don't need VC funding to launch a new product line though.
JoshMnem 8y ago
> It sucks, but we're the minority here. I'm not interested in any home automation. The ability to turn on my lights with a wristwatch doesn't have reasonable benefits compared to the risks. It's hard for me to believe that people actually put these Internet-connected, voice-activated devices in their homes. The smartphones are bad enough. That kind of automation doesn't encourage living deliberately, and the privacy and behavior manipulation (tracking, ads, etc.) issues around it are horrendous. (DIY can avoid most of those problems though.)
- kazen44 8y ago
  90% of the functionality one reasonably wants from their home automation systems comes down to basically some descrete logic and some sensory input. 1) automatic lighting depending on occupancy. (this has existed since the 80's) 2) time based events which respond to either heating or lighting, maybe alarm systems aswell. 3) acces control/security Those are basically all major systems most people would want to automate in their homes, and none of them should require voice control or a smartphone app. (heck, most could be done with discrete PLC's, although that would be a horrible UX).
  - Karunamon 8y ago
    I'd add a #4 voice control to that. You don't think you need it until you've used it, then you use it and wonder how the hell you ever survived without it. An Echo with a couple of smart switches feels like the future. This is one of the sane use cases for the cloud, IMO. Local speech recognition kinda sucks, and expecting consumers to manually update their firmware (since we've taken auto updates off the table) for new improvements is not realistic.
- acidburnNSA 8y ago
  I've been monitoring my energy consumption, extending my existing doorbell to an upstairs stereo, automatically turning lights on in different modes as I walk around at different times of day, playing a beautiful loon call as the sun sets, securing my home while I'm away (it auto-arms when my phone disconnects from the router and disarms when it returns), turning on a/c when I begin my commute home, reminding me it's garbage day, etc. All locally running on an open source platform with remote access over OpenVPN. This is the wonder of Home Assistant. It's mostly just for fun but you can easily see it becoming very practical. My security system is legit; it emails snapshots from cameras to a special account that triggers a urgent notification on my phone while turning on a loud siren in the home and all the lights. I did a funhouse mode that played static on the tv and monster/police/machine gun noises on the stereo while chaotically blinking all the lights... it actually scared even me a little.
NeedMoreTea 8y ago
There's been a couple of really promising privacy respecting Indiegogo or Kickstarter offerings, but neither got to a product. I find it really hard to believe there isn't a viable way to a home assistant / hub that leaves control and privacy in the home. The whole IoT, app, with constant data harvesting and selling is not what I want in the home, just control and ability to buy without all the dystopian baggage. It all seemed so much more promising back in the days of X10 and keeping automation on the LAN. Edit: X10 was launched in 1978. No wonder it could do with a refresh! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/X10_(industry_standard) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/X10_(industry_standard)
- kazen44 8y ago
  Proper "home automation" systems do exists, but they are usually meant for automating public and large buildings, require a KNX network (which is very, very expensive on the device and programming side) and usually have hardware which is simple not affordable to the average consumer. KNX works fine, it is a broad standard with a ton of support, the issue is it's massive pricepoint and fact that almost every hardware device that has support for it comes in a DIN package. (which is fine for large scale buildings with utility closets which have DIN rails, but not for your average home).
  - NeedMoreTea 8y ago
    Sounds like there's a niche I'd dearly love someone to find and exploit. X10 still exists, and modules are still sold (for about a tenth of the cost of KNX modules from a quick search), but it's an ancient standard and very limited compared to what we might now expect. On, off and dimming are about the extent of its abilities.
    - kazen44 8y ago
      KNX can do basically anything you want from a building (including HVAC, security systems etc), but is just very, very expensive. Also, most software server front ends for it are horrible. I am actually wondering if building a relatively cheap KNX hardware module for home assistant might just not be the best option in that regard.

That's my concern as well. I love the idea of home automation, but I don't want someone else to have that data. It sucks, but we're the minority here.

by lykr0n 8y ago

That's my concern as well. I love the idea of home automation, but I don't want someone else to have that data. It sucks, but we're the minority here.

acidburnNSA 8y ago

We're all in luck because the Home Assistant community [1] is on it. It's still a bit of a tinkerer's domain but things are rapidly evolving and becoming more user friendly. [1] https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2018/09/17/thinking-big/ https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2018/09/17/thinking-big/

kazen44 8y ago
Also, IKEA has simple, but very effective home automation (lighting and plugs for now though more will come) that is dead simple to use and can work without an internet connection[1] Also, home assistant integration is dead easy and it's very cheap compared to comparable products. (Especially because amazon's offerings are vastly overpriced in countries where they have no locations). https://www.iot-tests.org/2017/04/ikea-tradfri-a-smart-light-in-the-darkness-of-iot-security/ https://www.iot-tests.org/2017/04/ikea-tradfri-a-smart-light...
- tfha 8y ago
  "Works without an Internet connection" That's all I want. Why did the first two generations of smart home equipment require a cloud? That's harder to develop. blegh
  - CamperBob2 8y ago
    Because good luck getting VC funding for anything that doesn't imprison the user in your company's cloud.
    - kazen44 8y ago
      companies like IKEA and phillip's don't need VC funding to launch a new product line though.

JoshMnem 8y ago

> It sucks, but we're the minority here. I'm not interested in any home automation. The ability to turn on my lights with a wristwatch doesn't have reasonable benefits compared to the risks. It's hard for me to believe that people actually put these Internet-connected, voice-activated devices in their homes. The smartphones are bad enough. That kind of automation doesn't encourage living deliberately, and the privacy and behavior manipulation (tracking, ads, etc.) issues around it are horrendous. (DIY can avoid most of those problems though.)

kazen44 8y ago
90% of the functionality one reasonably wants from their home automation systems comes down to basically some descrete logic and some sensory input. 1) automatic lighting depending on occupancy. (this has existed since the 80's) 2) time based events which respond to either heating or lighting, maybe alarm systems aswell. 3) acces control/security Those are basically all major systems most people would want to automate in their homes, and none of them should require voice control or a smartphone app. (heck, most could be done with discrete PLC's, although that would be a horrible UX).
- Karunamon 8y ago
  I'd add a #4 voice control to that. You don't think you need it until you've used it, then you use it and wonder how the hell you ever survived without it. An Echo with a couple of smart switches feels like the future. This is one of the sane use cases for the cloud, IMO. Local speech recognition kinda sucks, and expecting consumers to manually update their firmware (since we've taken auto updates off the table) for new improvements is not realistic.
acidburnNSA 8y ago
I've been monitoring my energy consumption, extending my existing doorbell to an upstairs stereo, automatically turning lights on in different modes as I walk around at different times of day, playing a beautiful loon call as the sun sets, securing my home while I'm away (it auto-arms when my phone disconnects from the router and disarms when it returns), turning on a/c when I begin my commute home, reminding me it's garbage day, etc. All locally running on an open source platform with remote access over OpenVPN. This is the wonder of Home Assistant. It's mostly just for fun but you can easily see it becoming very practical. My security system is legit; it emails snapshots from cameras to a special account that triggers a urgent notification on my phone while turning on a loud siren in the home and all the lights. I did a funhouse mode that played static on the tv and monster/police/machine gun noises on the stereo while chaotically blinking all the lights... it actually scared even me a little.

NeedMoreTea 8y ago

There's been a couple of really promising privacy respecting Indiegogo or Kickstarter offerings, but neither got to a product. I find it really hard to believe there isn't a viable way to a home assistant / hub that leaves control and privacy in the home. The whole IoT, app, with constant data harvesting and selling is not what I want in the home, just control and ability to buy without all the dystopian baggage. It all seemed so much more promising back in the days of X10 and keeping automation on the LAN. Edit: X10 was launched in 1978. No wonder it could do with a refresh! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/X10_(industry_standard) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/X10_(industry_standard)

kazen44 8y ago
Proper "home automation" systems do exists, but they are usually meant for automating public and large buildings, require a KNX network (which is very, very expensive on the device and programming side) and usually have hardware which is simple not affordable to the average consumer. KNX works fine, it is a broad standard with a ton of support, the issue is it's massive pricepoint and fact that almost every hardware device that has support for it comes in a DIN package. (which is fine for large scale buildings with utility closets which have DIN rails, but not for your average home).
- NeedMoreTea 8y ago
  Sounds like there's a niche I'd dearly love someone to find and exploit. X10 still exists, and modules are still sold (for about a tenth of the cost of KNX modules from a quick search), but it's an ancient standard and very limited compared to what we might now expect. On, off and dimming are about the extent of its abilities.
  - kazen44 8y ago
    KNX can do basically anything you want from a building (including HVAC, security systems etc), but is just very, very expensive. Also, most software server front ends for it are horrible. I am actually wondering if building a relatively cheap KNX hardware module for home assistant might just not be the best option in that regard.