4 ms·

I think we do - advertising is still a perfectly legitimate way to pay for 'free' content., plus subscriptions where they make sense. The current problem isn't

by soneil 8y ago

I think we do - advertising is still a perfectly legitimate way to pay for 'free' content., plus subscriptions where they make sense. The current problem isn't that we can't or won't pay, or we can't or won't accept advertising. It's that each generation of adtech becomes more and more user-hostile until we're forced to fight back. So the popup became the pop-under, and devolved into popup bombs until browsers were forced to act. Tracking has gone from associating an ad-view with its context, to growing that context across their entire ad network until they've profiled exactly what demographics and markets you fit into, and browsers are starting to fight back. It's not that we won't accept advertising. It's that advertising is in a constant race to the bottom. And I think - I hope - we're about hitting the bottom of the current generation of adtech.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
ValentineC 8y ago
> So the popup became the pop-under, and devolved into popup bombs until browsers were forced to act. Apart from NoScript, are there other good ways to handle "subscribe to my mailing list" modals?
dredmorbius 8y ago
No, advertising is inherently problematic, and always has been. * It's intrusive. * It's distracting. * It promotes a host of anti-usability features * It's creepy, and you're creeping me out. * Ads themselves price-discriminate -- though how and when I can never be certain * The mechanisms of advertising networks pose security issues * The goods and services which are most highly advertised are those which I'm least inclined to buy. * It's not relevant. https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/24107v/forbes_asks_why_do_programmers_hate_advertising/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/24107v/forbes_... Adding to the above, from four years ago, I've since realised that advertising: * Promotes crap content. * Kills quality content. * Undermines truth and liberal democracy. Supports and sustains demagoguery, fascism, and institutional oppression. See Dwight McDonald, "A Theory of Mass Culturei" (https://is.muni.cz/el/1421/jaro2008/ESB032/um/5136660/MacDonald_-_A_Theory_of_Mass_Culture.pdf https://is.muni.cz/el/1421/jaro2008/ESB032/um/5136660/MacDon...) (1953) (PDF), Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totaltarianism (http://gen.lib.rus.ec/search.php?req=arendt%20origins%20totalitarianism http://gen.lib.rus.ec/search.php?req=arendt%20origins%20tota...), and Gerry Mander's Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television* (http://gen.lib.rus.ec/search.php?req=Mander+arguments+elimination+television&open=0&res=25&view=simple&phrase=1&column=def http://gen.lib.rus.ec/search.php?req=Mander+arguments+elimin...), for starters. Hamilton Holt's excellent 1909 lecture, "Commercialism and Journalism", available from the Internet Archive, addresses most of the modern complaints against advertising, at a time when it was just beginning to massively re-shape (and, to be fair, enable) the modern media landscape. https://archive.org/details/commercialismjou00holt https://archive.org/details/commercialismjou00holt
earenndil 8y ago
Firefox and safari have done a few relatively small things. Chrome is owned by google, and edge doesn't seem to have done anything.

by soneil 8y ago

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

ValentineC 8y ago

> So the popup became the pop-under, and devolved into popup bombs until browsers were forced to act. Apart from NoScript, are there other good ways to handle "subscribe to my mailing list" modals?

dredmorbius 8y ago

No, advertising is inherently problematic, and always has been. * It's intrusive. * It's distracting. * It promotes a host of anti-usability features * It's creepy, and you're creeping me out. * Ads themselves price-discriminate -- though how and when I can never be certain * The mechanisms of advertising networks pose security issues * The goods and services which are most highly advertised are those which I'm least inclined to buy. * It's not relevant. https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/24107v/forbes_asks_why_do_programmers_hate_advertising/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/24107v/forbes_... Adding to the above, from four years ago, I've since realised that advertising: * Promotes crap content. * Kills quality content. * Undermines truth and liberal democracy. Supports and sustains demagoguery, fascism, and institutional oppression. See Dwight McDonald, "A Theory of Mass Culturei" (https://is.muni.cz/el/1421/jaro2008/ESB032/um/5136660/MacDonald_-_A_Theory_of_Mass_Culture.pdf https://is.muni.cz/el/1421/jaro2008/ESB032/um/5136660/MacDon...) (1953) (PDF), Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totaltarianism (http://gen.lib.rus.ec/search.php?req=arendt%20origins%20totalitarianism http://gen.lib.rus.ec/search.php?req=arendt%20origins%20tota...), and Gerry Mander's Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television* (http://gen.lib.rus.ec/search.php?req=Mander+arguments+elimination+television&open=0&res=25&view=simple&phrase=1&column=def http://gen.lib.rus.ec/search.php?req=Mander+arguments+elimin...), for starters. Hamilton Holt's excellent 1909 lecture, "Commercialism and Journalism", available from the Internet Archive, addresses most of the modern complaints against advertising, at a time when it was just beginning to massively re-shape (and, to be fair, enable) the modern media landscape. https://archive.org/details/commercialismjou00holt https://archive.org/details/commercialismjou00holt

earenndil 8y ago

Firefox and safari have done a few relatively small things. Chrome is owned by google, and edge doesn't seem to have done anything.