3 ms·

That assumes the expert has actually given an answer to my questions, in which case, you'd be 100% right. Even a "we don't know why this happens yet, here's wha

That assumes the expert has actually given an answer to my questions, in which case, you'd be 100% right. Even a "we don't know why this happens yet, here's what we know about it: ..." would be more than satisfactory. Just give me something! But when the expert has nothing to say, yet mocks my questions and even just my reporting of what is happening to me, as he very eagerly waits for me to leave so he can get paid... Then there's not much more I can do than read on the Internet. Some throw in a veiled insult by suggesting I should be sent to a psych ward for my "panic attacks." You might say it's not an insult, but I accepted the psychiatric evaluation once - and then a whole team of psychiatrists determined after 2 weeks that I was genuinely sick with stomach issues, and called that doctor up and asked him what the hell he was doing sending me to them when I had real physiological issues. The truth is, most patients will accept the doctor's advice if the doctor can give an answer, any answer that's genuine. "We checked out the inflammation and we don't know why it's there, we'll keep working on it." <--- GREAT. Even the most "annoying" and inquisitive patients will accept this answer. The problem occurs when the doctor thinks him/herself too good to work with the patients by giving answers like this.

toxik 8y ago
I'm absolutely not trying to belittle your experience -- it sounds horrible, and it is something I have met, and that my spouse has met. She was crying after she had met a doctor that examined her, because the doctor had made fun of her, in no uncertain words implying her symptoms were fictitious. My point was more generally about how doctors are a lot like the car mechanics of people. So when none of the usual things show up as wrong, they just assume your electronics are shot (for humans, "you're crazy") and move on.
- theprotocol 8y ago
  >I'm absolutely not trying to belittle your experience I understand, I didn't think that you were. I agree with the point you made that maybe doctors who are trying to work might be impeded by a patient who disagrees. But I think that is a much smaller problem since the doctor can quickly be vindicated when the treatment he or she advises works, or the disagreeing patient leaves.
- ddingus 8y ago
  Yes. I lost a mother in law due to that. She had legit signs of heart disease. Got told repeatedly it was diet. Went out to work and, hard core as she was, powered through a heart attack. Damage was terminal. She lived a few more years. Hard core again, she got tired of being zapped back to life, asked them to turn it off. I had to intervene and force it. She lived another blissful month. Through the whole thing, it was, "woman, you know nothing" right and left. I basically became full time patient advocate, and wish I was in that role earlier.
xxxdarrenxxx 8y ago
I recognize something similar to your stomach case, but my psychiatrist told me that a regular doctor can't establish AND not-establish if it's psychological. If there are markers, even if his intuition wasn't 100% sure, he can only cross it off when a psychiatrist has examined it. Otherwise he'd ignore an unknown variable manifesting practice wise as "let's assume (gamble) that it's irrelevant". This is actually quite scientific. To say "I do not know" therefore I send you to someone else. Instead of "I do not know, so let's go with my less than first place experience" For a doctor who (might have) missed so much other aspects in life due to the nature of studying and practicing medicine, to say when it's his moment to shine "i do not know, I will send you to someone better qualified than me", is quite amazing. Most people can't set their ego aside when it concerns something as simple as the taste of music. Not to mention, depending of course on the setting/country/institution, one might be sending 'free cash' out of the door as well. Just to explore objectivity, if a patient is to potential points of obsessions with having something particular. It becomes rather easy to sell those expensive pills. Martin Shkreli gave us a a very real example of seeing the bug in the sytem, and put a fucking kiddy script in it.
jrnichols 8y ago
> Even the most "annoying" and inquisitive patients will accept this answer but in the United States, often times they won't accept it and instead will give the physician a low survey score, which ties directly to their financial reimbursement. This is a big problem. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/04/the-problem-with-satisfied-patients/390684/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/04/the-probl...

toxik 8y ago

I'm absolutely not trying to belittle your experience -- it sounds horrible, and it is something I have met, and that my spouse has met. She was crying after she had met a doctor that examined her, because the doctor had made fun of her, in no uncertain words implying her symptoms were fictitious. My point was more generally about how doctors are a lot like the car mechanics of people. So when none of the usual things show up as wrong, they just assume your electronics are shot (for humans, "you're crazy") and move on.

theprotocol 8y ago
>I'm absolutely not trying to belittle your experience I understand, I didn't think that you were. I agree with the point you made that maybe doctors who are trying to work might be impeded by a patient who disagrees. But I think that is a much smaller problem since the doctor can quickly be vindicated when the treatment he or she advises works, or the disagreeing patient leaves.
ddingus 8y ago
Yes. I lost a mother in law due to that. She had legit signs of heart disease. Got told repeatedly it was diet. Went out to work and, hard core as she was, powered through a heart attack. Damage was terminal. She lived a few more years. Hard core again, she got tired of being zapped back to life, asked them to turn it off. I had to intervene and force it. She lived another blissful month. Through the whole thing, it was, "woman, you know nothing" right and left. I basically became full time patient advocate, and wish I was in that role earlier.

xxxdarrenxxx 8y ago

I recognize something similar to your stomach case, but my psychiatrist told me that a regular doctor can't establish AND not-establish if it's psychological. If there are markers, even if his intuition wasn't 100% sure, he can only cross it off when a psychiatrist has examined it. Otherwise he'd ignore an unknown variable manifesting practice wise as "let's assume (gamble) that it's irrelevant". This is actually quite scientific. To say "I do not know" therefore I send you to someone else. Instead of "I do not know, so let's go with my less than first place experience" For a doctor who (might have) missed so much other aspects in life due to the nature of studying and practicing medicine, to say when it's his moment to shine "i do not know, I will send you to someone better qualified than me", is quite amazing. Most people can't set their ego aside when it concerns something as simple as the taste of music. Not to mention, depending of course on the setting/country/institution, one might be sending 'free cash' out of the door as well. Just to explore objectivity, if a patient is to potential points of obsessions with having something particular. It becomes rather easy to sell those expensive pills. Martin Shkreli gave us a a very real example of seeing the bug in the sytem, and put a fucking kiddy script in it.

jrnichols 8y ago

> Even the most "annoying" and inquisitive patients will accept this answer but in the United States, often times they won't accept it and instead will give the physician a low survey score, which ties directly to their financial reimbursement. This is a big problem. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/04/the-problem-with-satisfied-patients/390684/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/04/the-probl...