5 ms·

Singapore Says It Needs Foreign Tech Talent and `Fun' Education

29 points by doppp 8y ago

justtopost 8y ago
Singapore gets a lot of love here, but their laws are so bad, I can't see myself ever seriously considering it. Hard to reconsile with all the other burgening tech hubs around the world, even if SV holds no appeal.
- NIL8 8y ago
  I agree with you. I'm curious, what are some of the other burgeoning tech hubs competing against Singapore?
  - djpr 8y ago
    I think Kuala Lumpur - including PJ & Cyberjaya areas - is one completely under-rated area in the region. It's easy to get a foreign visa, infrastructure is good, culture is relatively open, most people speak English, and it's a very affordable city (for people on Western-level, say Spain's level, income). Plus, with AirAsia flights its easy to hop over to Vietnam, Thailand, or elsewhere for weekend vacation.
    - NIL8 8y ago
      Good information. Thanks. Do you think the pay is comparable to the West?
- djpr 8y ago
  I'm curious what laws specifically or areas of law? Especially when compared to Malaysia, Indonesia or other neighboring countries.
  - Nasrudith 8y ago
    Well any country where you can be sentenced to death for the work of a pickpocket putting less than an ounce of heroin in your luggage or a corrupt official planting it for not giving bribes is what I would call a place to never visit without diplomatic immunity to put it in polite terms. Not to mention the caning.
    - djpr 8y ago
      I think you are a bit mistaken here. I have lived in Singapore, Malaysia, and Indonesia for over 10 years: 1. Drug laws are harsh in Southeast Asia, but Singapore is the only place you don’t have to worry about bribery. It’s probably the only country in Southeast Asia where you can’t bribe anyone. It’s places like Bali where cops plant drugs on tourists or sell drugs to tourists to arrest them later to get cash from them. But if that really scares you, avoid Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia - it’s a safer bet in Singapore. 2. Canning isn’t a common occurance. I would be more afraid to be Black in America than being canned in Singapore.
      - ezoe 8y ago
        There are always exceptions. Besides, bribery isn't the only threat. If the government agency decided that you must be removed from the society, they will plant the evidence anyway.
        djpr 8y ago
        Again, I'm not sure what's the difference between Singapore and most of Southeast Asia and say Latin America, if you are talking about challenging the gov't brazenly. Its only in Western Europe, Australia, and Canada where I would feel safe (as a citizen only) to openly challenge the gov't. The rest sounds iffy. If that's your criteria of countries you'd visit or live in - then I respect that. But you'll be within only a tiny slice of humanity.
    - MarkMc 8y ago
      I agree that capital punishment for drug offences is abhorrent, but in terms of personal safety you need to also consider other risks. Singapore has a population of 5.6 million and each year about 2 people are executed for drug offences and about 12 people are murdered. In the US for each 5.6 million people about 270 are murdered each year. There are plenty of other risks to consider but I think you are probably safer in Singapore.
  - trevyn 8y ago
    Internet is censored in Singapore: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_Singapore https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_Singa...
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
thedailymail 8y ago
I've been living in Asia for 24 years, working on R&D policy for the last 10, and have seen lots of countries come up with schemes to attract foreign talent, without coming up for ways to keep the talent in the country once the fad for whatever-tech has ended. In Singapore, for example, there was a huge push for biotech/biomed R&D focused on the ASTAR research complex. After a few years though, the government's interest diminished significantly (along with funds) due to a combination of 1) the political demise of ASTAR's champion in the bureaucracy (due in part to a feud with the daughter of Lee Kuan Yew; 2) the successful luring of global biopharm companies to set up Asia HQs in Singapore, which was viewed by some in the Sing govt as a 'Mission Accomplished' moment; and 3) the dramatic financial success of the Marina Bay Sands casino, which made a striking counterpoint to the vague, serendipity-based rationale for investing in basic research with no business plan in place. Many countries want the cultural cachet and revenue potential that are historically associated with big investments in basic science. But smaller countries (meaning anything smaller than, say, Germany or S Korea) are going to have a hard time justifying the massive spending without clear economic outputs. I think this applies equally to nascent tech sectors, like AI – maybe even more so for big data-intensive fields like AI. What does being based in Singapore have to offer an AI researcher compared to being in a major US or PRC city? Granted, the SE Asia location with a good hub airport is nice, but is there some advantage to your work from being geographically present in a city-state of ~5 million people? The odds are that this proposition appeals mainly to people who are 1) from the developing world, 2) who have a hard time competing in the developed world (for whatever reason), or 3) very senior scientists looking to pad their retirement income through highly paid advisory work. All this can be well and good for people who go in with the clear intent to leave within 3–5 years. But some people find themselves wanting to stay, and once the funds for their chosen field of endeavor dry up due to the short attention spans associated with bureaucratic funding commitments, they may find that the welcome has worn out uncomfortably quickly.
- djpr 8y ago
  Agreed. Singapore is at a very critical point in their history. They are at a moment where they have to rethink and reinvent themselves to compete mid/long term, but at the same time, locals are so weary of gov't spending and foreigners. I love Singapore but it's a shame.
rdlecler1 8y ago
They’d need a lot of world class educations, low cost of living, and plenty of risk capital. They may capture the first, but less for the rest.
- djpr 8y ago
  Agreed. If Singapore could somehow unite or federate with Johor, I think it would be perfect. There would be the hyper-capitalist CBD, suburban "Heartland" and the wilder (relatively speaking) Johor where people could experiment.
  - djpr 8y ago
    I see I'm being down-voted. That's okay, I'm just curious to know your thoughts. There has been plenty of discussions if Singapore needs a "hinterland" to survive and if Johor can be that hinterland. I'm leaning yes on that camp, but I'd like to hear counter points.
tixocloud 8y ago
Does anyone know any incubators or accelerators in Singapore?
rdm_blackhole 8y ago
I have been in Singapore for a conference. The country is clean and safe as far as I can tell. The only problem is that it is very small so unless you fly out every weekend to the nearby countries, there is not much to do besides shopping which I personally don't care about.
- djpr 8y ago
  The great thing about Singapore (and Kuala Lumpur) is that you can travel to other countries easily and cheaply. That said, Singapore has some of the best cocktail bars in the world (they can keep up with New York & London), lively museum scene, incredible amount of parks and outdoor areas, etc. When I lived in Singapore, we BBQ'd in a different park by the water every weekend and if we weren't eating, we were trekking around the different parks and nature reserves. Stay away from CBD - like most Singaporeans do - and you'll find lots to do. That said, yes, its not as wild as Jakarta or Bangkok.
scruffyherder 8y ago
High on interest, low on content. Why should I move to Singapore from Hong Kong? Do they help me setup my business? Do I get tax breaks? Incentives to OJT workers? How about bringing in foreign workers? Reduced office space? Non censored media? Can't say I'm all that convinced, if anything I want to move to the mainland so I can live in something bigger than a closet.

29 points by doppp 8y ago

Singapore gets a lot of love here, but their laws are so bad, I can't see myself ever seriously considering it. Hard to reconsile with all the other burgening tech hubs around the world, even if SV holds no appeal.

NIL8 8y ago
I agree with you. I'm curious, what are some of the other burgeoning tech hubs competing against Singapore?
- djpr 8y ago
  I think Kuala Lumpur - including PJ & Cyberjaya areas - is one completely under-rated area in the region. It's easy to get a foreign visa, infrastructure is good, culture is relatively open, most people speak English, and it's a very affordable city (for people on Western-level, say Spain's level, income). Plus, with AirAsia flights its easy to hop over to Vietnam, Thailand, or elsewhere for weekend vacation.
  - NIL8 8y ago
    Good information. Thanks. Do you think the pay is comparable to the West?
djpr 8y ago
I'm curious what laws specifically or areas of law? Especially when compared to Malaysia, Indonesia or other neighboring countries.
- Nasrudith 8y ago
  Well any country where you can be sentenced to death for the work of a pickpocket putting less than an ounce of heroin in your luggage or a corrupt official planting it for not giving bribes is what I would call a place to never visit without diplomatic immunity to put it in polite terms. Not to mention the caning.
  - djpr 8y ago
    I think you are a bit mistaken here. I have lived in Singapore, Malaysia, and Indonesia for over 10 years: 1. Drug laws are harsh in Southeast Asia, but Singapore is the only place you don’t have to worry about bribery. It’s probably the only country in Southeast Asia where you can’t bribe anyone. It’s places like Bali where cops plant drugs on tourists or sell drugs to tourists to arrest them later to get cash from them. But if that really scares you, avoid Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia - it’s a safer bet in Singapore. 2. Canning isn’t a common occurance. I would be more afraid to be Black in America than being canned in Singapore.
    - ezoe 8y ago
      There are always exceptions. Besides, bribery isn't the only threat. If the government agency decided that you must be removed from the society, they will plant the evidence anyway.
      - djpr 8y ago
        Again, I'm not sure what's the difference between Singapore and most of Southeast Asia and say Latin America, if you are talking about challenging the gov't brazenly. Its only in Western Europe, Australia, and Canada where I would feel safe (as a citizen only) to openly challenge the gov't. The rest sounds iffy. If that's your criteria of countries you'd visit or live in - then I respect that. But you'll be within only a tiny slice of humanity.
  - MarkMc 8y ago
    I agree that capital punishment for drug offences is abhorrent, but in terms of personal safety you need to also consider other risks. Singapore has a population of 5.6 million and each year about 2 people are executed for drug offences and about 12 people are murdered. In the US for each 5.6 million people about 270 are murdered each year. There are plenty of other risks to consider but I think you are probably safer in Singapore.
- trevyn 8y ago
  Internet is censored in Singapore: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_Singapore https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_Singa...
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]

thedailymail 8y ago

I've been living in Asia for 24 years, working on R&D policy for the last 10, and have seen lots of countries come up with schemes to attract foreign talent, without coming up for ways to keep the talent in the country once the fad for whatever-tech has ended. In Singapore, for example, there was a huge push for biotech/biomed R&D focused on the ASTAR research complex. After a few years though, the government's interest diminished significantly (along with funds) due to a combination of 1) the political demise of ASTAR's champion in the bureaucracy (due in part to a feud with the daughter of Lee Kuan Yew; 2) the successful luring of global biopharm companies to set up Asia HQs in Singapore, which was viewed by some in the Sing govt as a 'Mission Accomplished' moment; and 3) the dramatic financial success of the Marina Bay Sands casino, which made a striking counterpoint to the vague, serendipity-based rationale for investing in basic research with no business plan in place. Many countries want the cultural cachet and revenue potential that are historically associated with big investments in basic science. But smaller countries (meaning anything smaller than, say, Germany or S Korea) are going to have a hard time justifying the massive spending without clear economic outputs. I think this applies equally to nascent tech sectors, like AI – maybe even more so for big data-intensive fields like AI. What does being based in Singapore have to offer an AI researcher compared to being in a major US or PRC city? Granted, the SE Asia location with a good hub airport is nice, but is there some advantage to your work from being geographically present in a city-state of ~5 million people? The odds are that this proposition appeals mainly to people who are 1) from the developing world, 2) who have a hard time competing in the developed world (for whatever reason), or 3) very senior scientists looking to pad their retirement income through highly paid advisory work. All this can be well and good for people who go in with the clear intent to leave within 3–5 years. But some people find themselves wanting to stay, and once the funds for their chosen field of endeavor dry up due to the short attention spans associated with bureaucratic funding commitments, they may find that the welcome has worn out uncomfortably quickly.

djpr 8y ago
Agreed. Singapore is at a very critical point in their history. They are at a moment where they have to rethink and reinvent themselves to compete mid/long term, but at the same time, locals are so weary of gov't spending and foreigners. I love Singapore but it's a shame.

rdlecler1 8y ago

They’d need a lot of world class educations, low cost of living, and plenty of risk capital. They may capture the first, but less for the rest.

djpr 8y ago
Agreed. If Singapore could somehow unite or federate with Johor, I think it would be perfect. There would be the hyper-capitalist CBD, suburban "Heartland" and the wilder (relatively speaking) Johor where people could experiment.
- djpr 8y ago
  I see I'm being down-voted. That's okay, I'm just curious to know your thoughts. There has been plenty of discussions if Singapore needs a "hinterland" to survive and if Johor can be that hinterland. I'm leaning yes on that camp, but I'd like to hear counter points.

tixocloud 8y ago

Does anyone know any incubators or accelerators in Singapore?

rdm_blackhole 8y ago

I have been in Singapore for a conference. The country is clean and safe as far as I can tell. The only problem is that it is very small so unless you fly out every weekend to the nearby countries, there is not much to do besides shopping which I personally don't care about.

djpr 8y ago
The great thing about Singapore (and Kuala Lumpur) is that you can travel to other countries easily and cheaply. That said, Singapore has some of the best cocktail bars in the world (they can keep up with New York & London), lively museum scene, incredible amount of parks and outdoor areas, etc. When I lived in Singapore, we BBQ'd in a different park by the water every weekend and if we weren't eating, we were trekking around the different parks and nature reserves. Stay away from CBD - like most Singaporeans do - and you'll find lots to do. That said, yes, its not as wild as Jakarta or Bangkok.

scruffyherder 8y ago

High on interest, low on content. Why should I move to Singapore from Hong Kong? Do they help me setup my business? Do I get tax breaks? Incentives to OJT workers? How about bringing in foreign workers? Reduced office space? Non censored media? Can't say I'm all that convinced, if anything I want to move to the mainland so I can live in something bigger than a closet.