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I tend to agree. We have to be careful that the Mars dreams don't become a distraction from the problems we have on Earth. I am very much for spaceflight but we

I tend to agree. We have to be careful that the Mars dreams don't become a distraction from the problems we have on Earth. I am very much for spaceflight but we should treat other planets with care and not export stupid things we do on Earth there.

dogma1138 8y ago
That’s a very short sighted view. We went to the moon at a period when we had many more problems on earth in fact we went to the moon nearly solely because of problems on earth. The moonshot and the era of space exploration that of followed it enriched us beyond what most of us can comprehend and Mars won’t be any different. We can never solve all our problems and human nature isn’t going to magically change over night we will have the same problems we are having here on earth else where and that is good because solutions that we might find to them on Mars or somewhere else might also be applicable here.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  This makes sense. My point was that we should be careful to not repeat the same mistakes we are making on Earth. I could easily imagine that somebody may start building factories on Mars that pollute the whole planet in order to make some profit.
  - dogma1138 8y ago
    Building polluting factories on Mars would be perfectly fine in fact it would be encouraged it would be a critical part of any terraforming project.
    - maxxxxx 8y ago
      I think pollution is generally viewed as something negative. It it's part of a planned terraforming project you would not call it pollution.
      - dogma1138 8y ago
        Pollution is pollution space is hostile and toxic to human life the pollution won’t be magical and non-harmful it will also be much more impactful on the existing environment on Mars than it is on earth and that is a good thing. On earth we don’t need to stop pollution because we’re killing the planet we aren’t we can’t kill the planet regardless of what we do we need to stop because we’re killing ourselves but this notion that somehow human impact on the planet is unnatural is simply silly we are living beings who evolved on this planet anything we do is derived from the same “natural” process which started with the Big Bang.
- AndrewKemendo 8y ago
  Nearly everything that actually impacts your life in a positive way had absolutely no beginning or relation to space travel. Short list: Cement, Electric Turbines, Indoor Lighting, Compression, Photography, Assembly Lines, Printing Press, Fertilizer, Bicycles, Internal Combustion Engine, Vaccines, Heavier than Air transportation You can find efficiencies and improvements that came out of space programs, sure. However I've yet to see anyone make a compelling argument that the specific period that was spent on the goal of going to the moon actually impacted anything to a greater degree than anything developed specifically for terrestrial problems. For the cost, it was a terribly inefficient way to solve earth problems. I'd argue that the most impactful thing to come out of our space program has been GPS/GLONASS/BAIDU positioning and timing systems. It was designed very specifically to enable terrestrial activities and has no relation to space exploration. It's not even functional beyond MEO.
loceng 8y ago
A lot of solutions required for Mars will benefit us here on Earth, of course technology alone won't allow the shift to happen. The problem with technological advancement is it gives an advantage, and who uses that advantage and for what purposes isn't easily controllable. This is why Elon rightfully fears AI so dearly. A bad actor that is malicious and intelligent enough could devastate us worse than anything in history and it could be a blindsided attack. If love is the answer, we need to learn how to better love and love more deeply.

dogma1138 8y ago

That’s a very short sighted view. We went to the moon at a period when we had many more problems on earth in fact we went to the moon nearly solely because of problems on earth. The moonshot and the era of space exploration that of followed it enriched us beyond what most of us can comprehend and Mars won’t be any different. We can never solve all our problems and human nature isn’t going to magically change over night we will have the same problems we are having here on earth else where and that is good because solutions that we might find to them on Mars or somewhere else might also be applicable here.

maxxxxx 8y ago
This makes sense. My point was that we should be careful to not repeat the same mistakes we are making on Earth. I could easily imagine that somebody may start building factories on Mars that pollute the whole planet in order to make some profit.
- dogma1138 8y ago
  Building polluting factories on Mars would be perfectly fine in fact it would be encouraged it would be a critical part of any terraforming project.
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    I think pollution is generally viewed as something negative. It it's part of a planned terraforming project you would not call it pollution.
    - dogma1138 8y ago
      Pollution is pollution space is hostile and toxic to human life the pollution won’t be magical and non-harmful it will also be much more impactful on the existing environment on Mars than it is on earth and that is a good thing. On earth we don’t need to stop pollution because we’re killing the planet we aren’t we can’t kill the planet regardless of what we do we need to stop because we’re killing ourselves but this notion that somehow human impact on the planet is unnatural is simply silly we are living beings who evolved on this planet anything we do is derived from the same “natural” process which started with the Big Bang.
AndrewKemendo 8y ago
Nearly everything that actually impacts your life in a positive way had absolutely no beginning or relation to space travel. Short list: Cement, Electric Turbines, Indoor Lighting, Compression, Photography, Assembly Lines, Printing Press, Fertilizer, Bicycles, Internal Combustion Engine, Vaccines, Heavier than Air transportation You can find efficiencies and improvements that came out of space programs, sure. However I've yet to see anyone make a compelling argument that the specific period that was spent on the goal of going to the moon actually impacted anything to a greater degree than anything developed specifically for terrestrial problems. For the cost, it was a terribly inefficient way to solve earth problems. I'd argue that the most impactful thing to come out of our space program has been GPS/GLONASS/BAIDU positioning and timing systems. It was designed very specifically to enable terrestrial activities and has no relation to space exploration. It's not even functional beyond MEO.

loceng 8y ago

A lot of solutions required for Mars will benefit us here on Earth, of course technology alone won't allow the shift to happen. The problem with technological advancement is it gives an advantage, and who uses that advantage and for what purposes isn't easily controllable. This is why Elon rightfully fears AI so dearly. A bad actor that is malicious and intelligent enough could devastate us worse than anything in history and it could be a blindsided attack. If love is the answer, we need to learn how to better love and love more deeply.