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> mantises appear to have evolved impressive learning abilities too I found a mid-sized mantis on my porch the other day. These things are fascinating. It seem

> mantises appear to have evolved impressive learning abilities too I found a mid-sized mantis on my porch the other day. These things are fascinating. It seemed to have genuine curiosity. I kinda waved my hand in front of it, and its gaze followed for a bit before it seemed to get bored with my hand and then looked me straight in the eyes. Then it casually walked away without breaking its gaze (its head turning nearly 180 degrees as it walked the other way). I'm sure I was projecting and it was just trying to avoid being eaten, but it seemed way more intelligent than other insects. Thankfully these things aren't dangerous to humans otherwise I'm sure they'd have us enslaved by now.

Razengan 8y ago
> Thankfully these things aren't dangerous to humans otherwise I'm sure they'd have us enslaved by now. There's still hope. We may get discovered by a warlike spacefaring species.
- aldoushuxley001 8y ago
  If history has taught us anything, it's that we are the most likely to enslave ourselves.
  - Razengan 8y ago
    Yes, some intergalactic conflict against a hostile alien species would be welcome if it meant getting a breaking from fighting over the same old shit between ourselves.
  - rbanffy 8y ago
    We did that to most mammals alive today.
atombender 8y ago
There's a curious and slightly creepy effect when you look into the eyes of a mantis (or other creature with the same kind of eyes, like certain species of shrimp), and dark "pupils" seem to be staring directly at you. Those aren't real pupils, however, but pseudopupils -- an optical effect where you happen to be looking at a straight line into one of the facets that make up the compound eyes. Seen head on, the ommatidia appear dark or black, while the surrounding ommatidia reflect the light outwards.
throwaway0255 8y ago
> I'm sure I was projecting and it was just trying to avoid being eaten, but it seemed way more intelligent than other insects. Really interesting, but I agree it's most likely just a projection. Possibly due to the fact that mantises are the only insect (that I can think of at least) that indicates focus by turning its head toward something? The power of human emotional projection is extremely strong. I had the misfortune of seeing domesticated dogs in great distress (to put it mildly) a few times when I was younger, and one thing I always remember is that while experiencing the distress, the dogs would still make that familiar panting facial expression that most people innately perceive as a dog "smiling" or expressing happiness/joy. As a result I have a very different experience from most people when I observe the behavior of dogs. I haven't seen any behavior in dogs yet that are any indication to me that they're capable of experiencing happiness/joy. I'm somewhat convinced that people's perception of the emotional spectrum of dogs in particular is almost entirely an optimistic human construct. Their behavior patterns and how they appear to experience things actually seems extremely narrow to me, roughly the same as most other animals. I think the one exception to that is that dogs are unique in their tendency to adapt those behaviors in a domestic environment as though dogs and humans were members of the same species.
- robbiep 8y ago
  I grew up on a farm and I have seen animals free from human interaction display playfulness, happiness, fear, pain and anger - Dogs, horses, cattle, sheep. In all cases I found these behaviours unambiguous and demonstrating a relatively rich inner life, that I find not at all unexpected from their neurobiology
  - sovande 8y ago
    That’s a very Cartesian world view on biology, luckily abandoned a long time ago. Animals where merely automatons and scientists dissecting dogs alive could gleefully ignore their cries as nothing more than automatic response stimuli. Today we know that physiologically humans are not very different from other mammals, even if we want to be. We all have a limbic system and that means we all have the same emotions. Animals have feelings and emotions. When things happen to them, they react with emotions be it sorrow, anger, happiness, fear.
justinpombrio 8y ago
> It seemed to have genuine curiosity. Yeah, they really do. I found one on a sidewalk a while back. Watched it for a while, then it came right up to me. I got it to come onto my hand. No fear. Last picture here: http://justinpombrio.net/about-me/pictures/ http://justinpombrio.net/about-me/pictures/ I left it in some bamboo after.
- ekianjo 8y ago
  a small one! In japanese mountains I have come across specimens that are at least 25 cm long. Bigger than one s hand. Truly terrifying!
BurningFrog 8y ago
> it seemed way more intelligent than other insects. Pretty sure most predators are more intelligent than their prey.
kakarot 8y ago
I got in a fist fight with one of those little guys once. He really wanted something of mine, he kept picking it up and walking away with it and I would swipe it out of his hands and put it back. Finally he just got flat out pissed and started snapping at me, rearing back in a fighting stance and jabbing at me any time I came near. He went from super chill to super mean in an instant I've encountered a few mantes before but that one takes the cake. They are SO SMART!
- ryanianian 8y ago
  That's wonderful and terrifying. How much 'damage' did it do when it jabbed/snapped at you? Enough to draw blood or hurt for a while? I'm always a bit fearful to pick them up (more so after reading this article - they can kill birds!).
  - kakarot 8y ago
    It's amazing how such a tiny thing can strike fear into people as large as us. It just felt like a hard pinch. But the ferocity with which he would strike made me recoil every time. And the hiss. Such a fascinating display of character for an insect. Does anyone know of other insects as expressive as mantes?

Razengan 8y ago

> Thankfully these things aren't dangerous to humans otherwise I'm sure they'd have us enslaved by now. There's still hope. We may get discovered by a warlike spacefaring species.

aldoushuxley001 8y ago
If history has taught us anything, it's that we are the most likely to enslave ourselves.
- Razengan 8y ago
  Yes, some intergalactic conflict against a hostile alien species would be welcome if it meant getting a breaking from fighting over the same old shit between ourselves.
- rbanffy 8y ago
  We did that to most mammals alive today.

atombender 8y ago

There's a curious and slightly creepy effect when you look into the eyes of a mantis (or other creature with the same kind of eyes, like certain species of shrimp), and dark "pupils" seem to be staring directly at you. Those aren't real pupils, however, but pseudopupils -- an optical effect where you happen to be looking at a straight line into one of the facets that make up the compound eyes. Seen head on, the ommatidia appear dark or black, while the surrounding ommatidia reflect the light outwards.

throwaway0255 8y ago

> I'm sure I was projecting and it was just trying to avoid being eaten, but it seemed way more intelligent than other insects. Really interesting, but I agree it's most likely just a projection. Possibly due to the fact that mantises are the only insect (that I can think of at least) that indicates focus by turning its head toward something? The power of human emotional projection is extremely strong. I had the misfortune of seeing domesticated dogs in great distress (to put it mildly) a few times when I was younger, and one thing I always remember is that while experiencing the distress, the dogs would still make that familiar panting facial expression that most people innately perceive as a dog "smiling" or expressing happiness/joy. As a result I have a very different experience from most people when I observe the behavior of dogs. I haven't seen any behavior in dogs yet that are any indication to me that they're capable of experiencing happiness/joy. I'm somewhat convinced that people's perception of the emotional spectrum of dogs in particular is almost entirely an optimistic human construct. Their behavior patterns and how they appear to experience things actually seems extremely narrow to me, roughly the same as most other animals. I think the one exception to that is that dogs are unique in their tendency to adapt those behaviors in a domestic environment as though dogs and humans were members of the same species.

robbiep 8y ago
I grew up on a farm and I have seen animals free from human interaction display playfulness, happiness, fear, pain and anger - Dogs, horses, cattle, sheep. In all cases I found these behaviours unambiguous and demonstrating a relatively rich inner life, that I find not at all unexpected from their neurobiology
- sovande 8y ago
  That’s a very Cartesian world view on biology, luckily abandoned a long time ago. Animals where merely automatons and scientists dissecting dogs alive could gleefully ignore their cries as nothing more than automatic response stimuli. Today we know that physiologically humans are not very different from other mammals, even if we want to be. We all have a limbic system and that means we all have the same emotions. Animals have feelings and emotions. When things happen to them, they react with emotions be it sorrow, anger, happiness, fear.

justinpombrio 8y ago

> It seemed to have genuine curiosity. Yeah, they really do. I found one on a sidewalk a while back. Watched it for a while, then it came right up to me. I got it to come onto my hand. No fear. Last picture here: http://justinpombrio.net/about-me/pictures/ http://justinpombrio.net/about-me/pictures/ I left it in some bamboo after.

ekianjo 8y ago
a small one! In japanese mountains I have come across specimens that are at least 25 cm long. Bigger than one s hand. Truly terrifying!

BurningFrog 8y ago

> it seemed way more intelligent than other insects. Pretty sure most predators are more intelligent than their prey.

kakarot 8y ago

I got in a fist fight with one of those little guys once. He really wanted something of mine, he kept picking it up and walking away with it and I would swipe it out of his hands and put it back. Finally he just got flat out pissed and started snapping at me, rearing back in a fighting stance and jabbing at me any time I came near. He went from super chill to super mean in an instant I've encountered a few mantes before but that one takes the cake. They are SO SMART!

ryanianian 8y ago
That's wonderful and terrifying. How much 'damage' did it do when it jabbed/snapped at you? Enough to draw blood or hurt for a while? I'm always a bit fearful to pick them up (more so after reading this article - they can kill birds!).
- kakarot 8y ago
  It's amazing how such a tiny thing can strike fear into people as large as us. It just felt like a hard pinch. But the ferocity with which he would strike made me recoil every time. And the hiss. Such a fascinating display of character for an insect. Does anyone know of other insects as expressive as mantes?