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They will fix it European way. > BERLIN (Reuters) - The German government is taking steps to counter a surge in Chinese bids for stakes in German technology co

by snaky 8y ago

They will fix it European way. > BERLIN (Reuters) - The German government is taking steps to counter a surge in Chinese bids for stakes in German technology companies, including the creation of a billion-euro fund that could rescue such firms in financial trouble, a government source told Reuters.

pgtan 8y ago
this is how they screwed the foreign companies on the insolvency of AirBerlin in favor of Lufthansa.
petre 8y ago
Maybe they shouldn't have taxed the crap out of these companies in the first place? Most succesful EU companies are 100+ years old due to taxes, bureaucracy and big company bullying. I find posts about the startup scene in most if not all EU countries laughable. Western Europe is too regulated and expensive (taxes) and Eastern Europe is too corrupt and politically unstable. Southern Europe is too hot and distracting. Maybe it has mafia as well. 20% VAT? Come on, that's outright theft. Hungary as 27% VAT. Portugal has 23% VAT. France has 20% but they also tax the crap out of companies and private citizens, especially if you're well off. Germany is over regulated, even the dogs barking hours is regulated. How do you expect tech startups to survive in this environment? Oh wait there's Ireland which gets lots of rain (people are cool working indoors) and has small taxes, except for VAT which is 23%. That one could work.
- PeterStuer 8y ago
  There is a large difference in Europe between the taxation rate and what is paid in practice by corporations. In several EU countries the 'real' taxation for industry is close to 0%. Why do you think companies like Google, Skype, Apple etc slush all their profits through EU subsidiaries?
  - pgtan 8y ago
    Finally, the new Euro-socialism "discovered" its old enemy on the other side of the ocean again. Just searching for "VW Steuern" reveals: https://www.google.com/search?q=vw+steuern&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 https://www.google.com/search?q=vw+steuern&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 "Volkswagen nutzt Luxemburg zum Steuernsparen" "VW darf Milliarden-Bußgeld teilweise von Steuer absetzen" "Der VW-Konzern nutzt ein fragwürdiges Steuersparmodell" "Grüne wollen wissen: Wo zahlt Volkswagen wie viel Steuern" "VW-Skandal: Steuern hinterzogen" "Steueroasen: Wie deutsche Großkonzerne den Steuerzahler um ..."
  - jstanley 8y ago
    > There is a large difference in Europe between the taxation rate and what is paid in practice by corporations. This is only true if you're big enough. If you're a small business, you pay the inflated rate or go to prison.
- pavlov 8y ago
  Taxes in USA are not meaningfully lower, except for state-local sales taxes vs. European VAT. But the thing about VAT is that it’s unimportant for most businesses. When selling B2B you just subtract all the VAT you paid from the VAT you owe. The only kind of business that is seriously affected by VAT is highly price-sensitive B2C, and technology startups usually aren’t that.
  - jstanley 8y ago
    I don't think you understand VAT. If you buy some computers for $100, do some work, and manage to sell your services for $1000, you get to reclaim $20 of VAT but you have to pay $200 of VAT, so a 20% VAT rate costs this hypothetical business 18% of its revenue, which is hardly "unimportant". And a typical tech company would be taking in far more than 10x in revenue than what they are spending on VAT-able goods. EDIT: But see below.
    - cuban-frisbee 8y ago
      He litterally just said it only matters in a B2C setting and not a B2B. Can you name even one AI product that is sold directly to consumers? Most if not all is B2B and there VAT is not used as it is a tax on consumption levied at the consumer, not other businesses.
      - jstanley 8y ago
        Ah, TIL, I didn't know VAT was not charged when selling to a business! So it was I who did not understand how VAT works :) I thought pavlov was under the impression that the VAT you pay when buying automatically cancels out with the VAT you charge when selling, so the only people who VAT affects are end users.
      - petre 8y ago
        Amazon Alexa? Wait, the AI there is meant for vendor lock in. Roomba vacuum cleaners? Spotify? As a business you stll have to buy stuff to recover VAT and sell your product 20% inflated.
- snaky 8y ago
  Germany will be good while Eastern Europe have brains willing to relocate, and US have H-1B quotes. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6648443 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6648443
- raverbashing 8y ago
  What does VAT has to do with it? VAT (as sales tax) is on the buyer. Yes, in the US you can have something like 5%/10%. But it's not the main price determiner. Also several company regulations don't exist for companies < 50 employees. Same as the US/Canada I believe entrepreneurial and investment culture is a more important drive of innovation and startups than regulations. And yes, fewer people will give you an Angel investment in Europe for a murky business plan, while in the Valley you might get 100k for showing something in your laptop to an Angel over coffee.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
PeterStuer 8y ago
A billion Euros. Wasn't that the acquisition price of Whats-app when they had 8 employees?
- snaky 8y ago
  $900 million was the acquisition price of Viber when their development was located in Belarus.

by snaky 8y ago

pgtan 8y ago

this is how they screwed the foreign companies on the insolvency of AirBerlin in favor of Lufthansa.

petre 8y ago

Maybe they shouldn't have taxed the crap out of these companies in the first place? Most succesful EU companies are 100+ years old due to taxes, bureaucracy and big company bullying. I find posts about the startup scene in most if not all EU countries laughable. Western Europe is too regulated and expensive (taxes) and Eastern Europe is too corrupt and politically unstable. Southern Europe is too hot and distracting. Maybe it has mafia as well. 20% VAT? Come on, that's outright theft. Hungary as 27% VAT. Portugal has 23% VAT. France has 20% but they also tax the crap out of companies and private citizens, especially if you're well off. Germany is over regulated, even the dogs barking hours is regulated. How do you expect tech startups to survive in this environment? Oh wait there's Ireland which gets lots of rain (people are cool working indoors) and has small taxes, except for VAT which is 23%. That one could work.

PeterStuer 8y ago
There is a large difference in Europe between the taxation rate and what is paid in practice by corporations. In several EU countries the 'real' taxation for industry is close to 0%. Why do you think companies like Google, Skype, Apple etc slush all their profits through EU subsidiaries?
- pgtan 8y ago
  Finally, the new Euro-socialism "discovered" its old enemy on the other side of the ocean again. Just searching for "VW Steuern" reveals: https://www.google.com/search?q=vw+steuern&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 https://www.google.com/search?q=vw+steuern&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 "Volkswagen nutzt Luxemburg zum Steuernsparen" "VW darf Milliarden-Bußgeld teilweise von Steuer absetzen" "Der VW-Konzern nutzt ein fragwürdiges Steuersparmodell" "Grüne wollen wissen: Wo zahlt Volkswagen wie viel Steuern" "VW-Skandal: Steuern hinterzogen" "Steueroasen: Wie deutsche Großkonzerne den Steuerzahler um ..."
- jstanley 8y ago
  > There is a large difference in Europe between the taxation rate and what is paid in practice by corporations. This is only true if you're big enough. If you're a small business, you pay the inflated rate or go to prison.
pavlov 8y ago
Taxes in USA are not meaningfully lower, except for state-local sales taxes vs. European VAT. But the thing about VAT is that it’s unimportant for most businesses. When selling B2B you just subtract all the VAT you paid from the VAT you owe. The only kind of business that is seriously affected by VAT is highly price-sensitive B2C, and technology startups usually aren’t that.
- jstanley 8y ago
  I don't think you understand VAT. If you buy some computers for $100, do some work, and manage to sell your services for $1000, you get to reclaim $20 of VAT but you have to pay $200 of VAT, so a 20% VAT rate costs this hypothetical business 18% of its revenue, which is hardly "unimportant". And a typical tech company would be taking in far more than 10x in revenue than what they are spending on VAT-able goods. EDIT: But see below.
  - cuban-frisbee 8y ago
    He litterally just said it only matters in a B2C setting and not a B2B. Can you name even one AI product that is sold directly to consumers? Most if not all is B2B and there VAT is not used as it is a tax on consumption levied at the consumer, not other businesses.
    - jstanley 8y ago
      Ah, TIL, I didn't know VAT was not charged when selling to a business! So it was I who did not understand how VAT works :) I thought pavlov was under the impression that the VAT you pay when buying automatically cancels out with the VAT you charge when selling, so the only people who VAT affects are end users.
    - petre 8y ago
      Amazon Alexa? Wait, the AI there is meant for vendor lock in. Roomba vacuum cleaners? Spotify? As a business you stll have to buy stuff to recover VAT and sell your product 20% inflated.
snaky 8y ago
Germany will be good while Eastern Europe have brains willing to relocate, and US have H-1B quotes. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6648443 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6648443
raverbashing 8y ago
What does VAT has to do with it? VAT (as sales tax) is on the buyer. Yes, in the US you can have something like 5%/10%. But it's not the main price determiner. Also several company regulations don't exist for companies < 50 employees. Same as the US/Canada I believe entrepreneurial and investment culture is a more important drive of innovation and startups than regulations. And yes, fewer people will give you an Angel investment in Europe for a murky business plan, while in the Valley you might get 100k for showing something in your laptop to an Angel over coffee.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

PeterStuer 8y ago

A billion Euros. Wasn't that the acquisition price of Whats-app when they had 8 employees?

snaky 8y ago
$900 million was the acquisition price of Viber when their development was located in Belarus.