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Let's say Europe against all odds succeeds in creating the seeds of some promising AI scale-ups. How will they prevent the US, Korea and China from cherry-picki

Let's say Europe against all odds succeeds in creating the seeds of some promising AI scale-ups. How will they prevent the US, Korea and China from cherry-picking and buying those out just like in all the previous IT-tech waves?

alain94040 8y ago
Critical mass takes a while to start, but once it starts, it won't stop. To answer your question, even if the first generation of successful AI startups get acquired by US companies, that success will create an appeal for even more European startups to be created (both because it's getting visibly successful, and because founders from the previous generation re-invest their gains in the next generation of founders). So the second wave is bigger than the first. And so on. The only problem for Europe so far, is that critical mass has not been achieved yet. Maybe it will eventually, hard to tell.
- PeterStuer 8y ago
  So why has this pattern not worked in previous IT-tech waves? Where are the hordes of major Computer, CPU, GPU, OS, Cloud Platforms, Search Engines, Social Media Platforms, ... that are still EU companies? SAP, Nokia, ...
  - simion314 8y ago
    CPU and GPU there are pattents so you can't just create an x86cpu so you could what create alternative CPUs, there are like ARM who is in Europe. For GPU I imagine you will step on AMD and NVIDIA pattents as well. Search Engines, I don't think there is money to be made from this respecting the user privacy, we will see if DDG proves me wrong. Nokia was destroyed by Microsoft, they forced Nokia to sell only Windows Phones and then MS bought them. But there are many electronics companies in EU for other domains, not sure if there is a need to compete with cheaper Chinese firms on phones. I think it could be the culture, people may not be into get rich quick schemes and may want to work on more mingfull stuff then created a FB alternative.
    - rcarmo 8y ago
      I had a ringside seat on the Nokia “turnaround” towards oblivion. The consumer side did suffer from Elop’s strategy (he also somewhat neglected the carrier network products), but the larger issue was that some carriers were so dependent on Nokia for mid-to-high-end handsets that when cheaper alternatives emerged they switched wholesale (I was at Vodafone at the time, and work at Microsoft now). As to the rest, I don’t see Europe being a contender in chip manufacturing (even though ARM originated in our side of the Atlantic), and I don’t think patents would hold us back. What does hold us back is the lack of significant manufacturing capabilities in those domains. There are a few electronics manufacturers and small fabs, but they cater to niches.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
snaky 8y ago
They will fix it European way. > BERLIN (Reuters) - The German government is taking steps to counter a surge in Chinese bids for stakes in German technology companies, including the creation of a billion-euro fund that could rescue such firms in financial trouble, a government source told Reuters.
- pgtan 8y ago
  this is how they screwed the foreign companies on the insolvency of AirBerlin in favor of Lufthansa.
- petre 8y ago
  Maybe they shouldn't have taxed the crap out of these companies in the first place? Most succesful EU companies are 100+ years old due to taxes, bureaucracy and big company bullying. I find posts about the startup scene in most if not all EU countries laughable. Western Europe is too regulated and expensive (taxes) and Eastern Europe is too corrupt and politically unstable. Southern Europe is too hot and distracting. Maybe it has mafia as well. 20% VAT? Come on, that's outright theft. Hungary as 27% VAT. Portugal has 23% VAT. France has 20% but they also tax the crap out of companies and private citizens, especially if you're well off. Germany is over regulated, even the dogs barking hours is regulated. How do you expect tech startups to survive in this environment? Oh wait there's Ireland which gets lots of rain (people are cool working indoors) and has small taxes, except for VAT which is 23%. That one could work.
  - PeterStuer 8y ago
    There is a large difference in Europe between the taxation rate and what is paid in practice by corporations. In several EU countries the 'real' taxation for industry is close to 0%. Why do you think companies like Google, Skype, Apple etc slush all their profits through EU subsidiaries?
    - pgtan 8y ago
      Finally, the new Euro-socialism "discovered" its old enemy on the other side of the ocean again. Just searching for "VW Steuern" reveals: https://www.google.com/search?q=vw+steuern&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 https://www.google.com/search?q=vw+steuern&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 "Volkswagen nutzt Luxemburg zum Steuernsparen" "VW darf Milliarden-Bußgeld teilweise von Steuer absetzen" "Der VW-Konzern nutzt ein fragwürdiges Steuersparmodell" "Grüne wollen wissen: Wo zahlt Volkswagen wie viel Steuern" "VW-Skandal: Steuern hinterzogen" "Steueroasen: Wie deutsche Großkonzerne den Steuerzahler um ..."

alain94040 8y ago

Critical mass takes a while to start, but once it starts, it won't stop. To answer your question, even if the first generation of successful AI startups get acquired by US companies, that success will create an appeal for even more European startups to be created (both because it's getting visibly successful, and because founders from the previous generation re-invest their gains in the next generation of founders). So the second wave is bigger than the first. And so on. The only problem for Europe so far, is that critical mass has not been achieved yet. Maybe it will eventually, hard to tell.

PeterStuer 8y ago
So why has this pattern not worked in previous IT-tech waves? Where are the hordes of major Computer, CPU, GPU, OS, Cloud Platforms, Search Engines, Social Media Platforms, ... that are still EU companies? SAP, Nokia, ...
- simion314 8y ago
  CPU and GPU there are pattents so you can't just create an x86cpu so you could what create alternative CPUs, there are like ARM who is in Europe. For GPU I imagine you will step on AMD and NVIDIA pattents as well. Search Engines, I don't think there is money to be made from this respecting the user privacy, we will see if DDG proves me wrong. Nokia was destroyed by Microsoft, they forced Nokia to sell only Windows Phones and then MS bought them. But there are many electronics companies in EU for other domains, not sure if there is a need to compete with cheaper Chinese firms on phones. I think it could be the culture, people may not be into get rich quick schemes and may want to work on more mingfull stuff then created a FB alternative.
  - rcarmo 8y ago
    I had a ringside seat on the Nokia “turnaround” towards oblivion. The consumer side did suffer from Elop’s strategy (he also somewhat neglected the carrier network products), but the larger issue was that some carriers were so dependent on Nokia for mid-to-high-end handsets that when cheaper alternatives emerged they switched wholesale (I was at Vodafone at the time, and work at Microsoft now). As to the rest, I don’t see Europe being a contender in chip manufacturing (even though ARM originated in our side of the Atlantic), and I don’t think patents would hold us back. What does hold us back is the lack of significant manufacturing capabilities in those domains. There are a few electronics manufacturers and small fabs, but they cater to niches.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

snaky 8y ago

They will fix it European way. > BERLIN (Reuters) - The German government is taking steps to counter a surge in Chinese bids for stakes in German technology companies, including the creation of a billion-euro fund that could rescue such firms in financial trouble, a government source told Reuters.

pgtan 8y ago
this is how they screwed the foreign companies on the insolvency of AirBerlin in favor of Lufthansa.
petre 8y ago
Maybe they shouldn't have taxed the crap out of these companies in the first place? Most succesful EU companies are 100+ years old due to taxes, bureaucracy and big company bullying. I find posts about the startup scene in most if not all EU countries laughable. Western Europe is too regulated and expensive (taxes) and Eastern Europe is too corrupt and politically unstable. Southern Europe is too hot and distracting. Maybe it has mafia as well. 20% VAT? Come on, that's outright theft. Hungary as 27% VAT. Portugal has 23% VAT. France has 20% but they also tax the crap out of companies and private citizens, especially if you're well off. Germany is over regulated, even the dogs barking hours is regulated. How do you expect tech startups to survive in this environment? Oh wait there's Ireland which gets lots of rain (people are cool working indoors) and has small taxes, except for VAT which is 23%. That one could work.
- PeterStuer 8y ago
  There is a large difference in Europe between the taxation rate and what is paid in practice by corporations. In several EU countries the 'real' taxation for industry is close to 0%. Why do you think companies like Google, Skype, Apple etc slush all their profits through EU subsidiaries?
  - pgtan 8y ago
    Finally, the new Euro-socialism "discovered" its old enemy on the other side of the ocean again. Just searching for "VW Steuern" reveals: https://www.google.com/search?q=vw+steuern&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 https://www.google.com/search?q=vw+steuern&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 "Volkswagen nutzt Luxemburg zum Steuernsparen" "VW darf Milliarden-Bußgeld teilweise von Steuer absetzen" "Der VW-Konzern nutzt ein fragwürdiges Steuersparmodell" "Grüne wollen wissen: Wo zahlt Volkswagen wie viel Steuern" "VW-Skandal: Steuern hinterzogen" "Steueroasen: Wie deutsche Großkonzerne den Steuerzahler um ..."