4 ms·

So, the same problem that the poor(er) states in the US have. And yet, they seem to be content to stay within the union - so I think there may be a little more

So, the same problem that the poor(er) states in the US have. And yet, they seem to be content to stay within the union - so I think there may be a little more to it than a single variable? I'm open to the argument, it just seems a little... well, short. Especially in a reply to a comment that said "The problems are more complex" :-) (now it's simple after all? I doubt it)

michaelt 8y ago
America has accepted massive, permanent subsidies from high productivity states to low ones. It’s one country, after all. Do the rich countries of the EU have the same appetite?
- mschuster91 8y ago
  > Do the rich countries of the EU have the same appetite? As a matter of fact, Germany and the other EU countries do massively finance the poorer EU countries (per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_statistics#EU_budget https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_statistics#EU_b...). Problem is corruption: EU funds too often get shunted sideways (e.g. for Hungary, https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/12/how-hungarian-pms-supporters-profit-from-eu-backed-projects https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/12/how-hungarian-...).
  - laurencerowe 8y ago
    Those figures do not show massive inter-regional financing. All but 2 countries have net EU expenditures of +/- 250 Euro per person. Per capita spending by the EU is 215 Euro per person compared to federal government spending of $9,961 per person in the US. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_taxation_and_spending_by_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_taxation_and_spending_... The EU budget is 1% of GDP while the US federal budget is 20% GDP, 60% of which goes on social security / medicare / safety net programs. US federal spending acts as a huge inter-regional stabilizer. Regional transfers must significantly increase within the Eurozone if the Euro is to avoid breaking up or immiserating huge numbers of citizens.
Kenji 8y ago
> So, the same problem that the poor(er) states in the US have. And yet, they seem to be content to stay within the union - so I think there may be a little more to it than a single variable? Are you seriously comparing the USA to the EU? Are you retarded? The USA is way more homogenous than Europe. The USA barely has any history, it's such a young country! European history goes back many thousands of years, you can't just force incompatible cultures together.
whack 8y ago
rleigh is making the same argument as people like Paul Krugman. It's a controversial topic for sure, but I think it's unfair to call it "short" https://www.npr.org/2011/01/25/133112932/paul-krugman-the-economic-failure-of-the-euro https://www.npr.org/2011/01/25/133112932/paul-krugman-the-ec...
- ItsMe000001 8y ago
  > I think it's unfair to call it "short" I replied to a comment here, not to Krugman. This should be obvious?

michaelt 8y ago

America has accepted massive, permanent subsidies from high productivity states to low ones. It’s one country, after all. Do the rich countries of the EU have the same appetite?

mschuster91 8y ago
> Do the rich countries of the EU have the same appetite? As a matter of fact, Germany and the other EU countries do massively finance the poorer EU countries (per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_statistics#EU_budget https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_statistics#EU_b...). Problem is corruption: EU funds too often get shunted sideways (e.g. for Hungary, https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/12/how-hungarian-pms-supporters-profit-from-eu-backed-projects https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/12/how-hungarian-...).
- laurencerowe 8y ago
  Those figures do not show massive inter-regional financing. All but 2 countries have net EU expenditures of +/- 250 Euro per person. Per capita spending by the EU is 215 Euro per person compared to federal government spending of $9,961 per person in the US. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_taxation_and_spending_by_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_taxation_and_spending_... The EU budget is 1% of GDP while the US federal budget is 20% GDP, 60% of which goes on social security / medicare / safety net programs. US federal spending acts as a huge inter-regional stabilizer. Regional transfers must significantly increase within the Eurozone if the Euro is to avoid breaking up or immiserating huge numbers of citizens.

Kenji 8y ago

> So, the same problem that the poor(er) states in the US have. And yet, they seem to be content to stay within the union - so I think there may be a little more to it than a single variable? Are you seriously comparing the USA to the EU? Are you retarded? The USA is way more homogenous than Europe. The USA barely has any history, it's such a young country! European history goes back many thousands of years, you can't just force incompatible cultures together.

whack 8y ago

rleigh is making the same argument as people like Paul Krugman. It's a controversial topic for sure, but I think it's unfair to call it "short" https://www.npr.org/2011/01/25/133112932/paul-krugman-the-economic-failure-of-the-euro https://www.npr.org/2011/01/25/133112932/paul-krugman-the-ec...

ItsMe000001 8y ago
> I think it's unfair to call it "short" I replied to a comment here, not to Krugman. This should be obvious?