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That's a broad generalization of PHP "coders" I think it's safe to say we've all seen good code a crap code -- regardless of language. It's not the wand, it's

by edoceo 8y ago

That's a broad generalization of PHP "coders" I think it's safe to say we've all seen good code a crap code -- regardless of language. It's not the wand, it's the magician. (nb: I've been building software for 20+ years, I use PHP (among others) and knew JOIN and types in PG before I ever saw PHP, I cannot be the only one)

phaer 8y ago
Yes, but the proportions between "bad", lets rather call them inexperienced, "coders" and experienced coders varies strongly in different ecosystems. PHP and JavaScript both democratized programming, as BASIC did years before, but that also meant that more tutorials and howtos for PHP were written by people relatively new to programming compared to say howtos on Haskell or C.
- cookiecaper 8y ago
  It's an "Eternal September" effect that never really wears off. I'm growing increasingly concerned that this is descending upon Python now. The internet as a whole is a wide enough system that it was able to withstand its Eternal September (though it's arguable that newsgroups weren't), but any specific language ecosystem, I fear for the moment it hits "mainstream".
dotancohen 8y ago
You're not the only one, but you are one in a thousand. When I work with Python, Java, C++, bash, SQL, or Javascript in a team I feel mediocre at best. I can get around, but I know that I'm easily outclassed. Contrast with PHP, where I'm almost always the best dev in the room. True that I have much more experience with PHP than in the other technologies that I've mentioned, but PHP has the dual curse of having a very low bar to entry, and seems-to-work enough that most "PHP coders" never feel the need to progress beyond the most basic of understanding. When I meet new devs I deliberately try to postpone mention of PHP as long as I can, to avoid attaching myself to the tainted stigma that PHP has acquired.

by edoceo 8y ago

phaer 8y ago

Yes, but the proportions between "bad", lets rather call them inexperienced, "coders" and experienced coders varies strongly in different ecosystems. PHP and JavaScript both democratized programming, as BASIC did years before, but that also meant that more tutorials and howtos for PHP were written by people relatively new to programming compared to say howtos on Haskell or C.

cookiecaper 8y ago
It's an "Eternal September" effect that never really wears off. I'm growing increasingly concerned that this is descending upon Python now. The internet as a whole is a wide enough system that it was able to withstand its Eternal September (though it's arguable that newsgroups weren't), but any specific language ecosystem, I fear for the moment it hits "mainstream".

dotancohen 8y ago

You're not the only one, but you are one in a thousand. When I work with Python, Java, C++, bash, SQL, or Javascript in a team I feel mediocre at best. I can get around, but I know that I'm easily outclassed. Contrast with PHP, where I'm almost always the best dev in the room. True that I have much more experience with PHP than in the other technologies that I've mentioned, but PHP has the dual curse of having a very low bar to entry, and seems-to-work enough that most "PHP coders" never feel the need to progress beyond the most basic of understanding. When I meet new devs I deliberately try to postpone mention of PHP as long as I can, to avoid attaching myself to the tainted stigma that PHP has acquired.