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One of the reasons I was excited for an EV future was the prospect of quieter cities and towns, as the noise pollution from legions of internal combustion engin

One of the reasons I was excited for an EV future was the prospect of quieter cities and towns, as the noise pollution from legions of internal combustion engines gave way to the quieter sound of electric cars. The pedestrian safety argument makes some sense, but I can't help wondering if there could be a better way than to add to the noise pollution.

maxxxxx 8y ago
The safety argument makes no sense. Especially once all cars are quieter.
- BoorishBears 8y ago
  It makes plenty of sense, at low speeds wind and tire noise aren't loud enough by themselves. My Volt makes a somewhat annoying tone below 25 mph, but I'm glad it does because almost immediately after getting it I noticed an increase in close-calls in parking lots when pedestrians would walk into the path of the car. The noise isn't too car-like so it's less effective than the engine noise people are used too, but it's also probably more effective than nothing.
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    I walk my dogs in the morning and for a while I had trouble with EVs and hybrids but now I am used to it and haven't had any problems. It's just learning.
    - anyfoo 8y ago
      The lower the sound level, the closer the car needs to be for you to hear it.
    - CynicalDio 8y ago
      Except if you get hit and seriously injured or die, you will have decreased opportunities to continue your "learning"
      - maxxxxx 8y ago
        One thing I have learned is that relying on hearing is very dangerous. You may have a car coming in your direction and if you don't look the other way you may not notice a car coming from the other direction.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- WorldMaker 8y ago
  Blind and visually impaired people still sometimes need to cross roads.
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    Do they really rely on car noise? Based on wind and other noise you can't be sure that you are hearing all cars.
    - WorldMaker 8y ago
      It depends on the situation, of course, and in many cases for situational awareness, you can imagine folks want to have as much information/affordances available to them as possible. Car/traffic noise is one bit of situational awareness that is often used. Whether or not there are other affordances, losing any affordance can be a safety problem/hazard.
  - jrace 8y ago
    To which a seeing-eye dog is often employed. Given that there is increased lack of "looking while you walk" from many people (due in part to the use of smartphones) noise from vehicles becomes a crucial indicator.
- NeedMoreTea 8y ago
  Except that's not true, it does make sense. Electric vehicles are apparently 40% more likely to hit a pedestrian than a conventionally engined car. There's been research going on for at least the last 10 years into both the risk and effective sounds that don't simply prove annoying (like a beep would), or lose directionality. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/06/new-law-combats-silent-menace-electric-cars https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/06/new-law-... https://www.rnib.org.uk/rnibconnect/silent-deadly-electric-hybrid-vehicles-sight-loss https://www.rnib.org.uk/rnibconnect/silent-deadly-electric-h...
  - icc97 8y ago
    I was being followed on my bicycle by an almost entirely silent hybrid driving on electric power. It really is quite freaky when you know it's behind you and can see it in your peripheral vision when you turn your head but can't hear it.
  - icc97 8y ago
    Annoyingly that 40% figure is almost impossible to find, it's from a survey done by a Guide Dogs charity in the UK but their own page on it [0] now just refers to it and doesn't link to the original report. [0]: https://www.guidedogs.org.uk/how-you-can-help/campaigning/safe-and-sound/ https://www.guidedogs.org.uk/how-you-can-help/campaigning/sa...
    - NeedMoreTea 8y ago
      So it is. Can find lots of references to the report, even from gov.uk, but no actual links to it.
mandeepj 8y ago
The sound of engines is not much compared to honking. Sadly, that will not go away with EVs
- hasbot 8y ago
  Car horns are much louder than these "introduced" noises. Interestingly, at low speeds the internal combustion noises are sufficient to alert pedestrians and bikers, but at high speeds, it's the tire noise that is loudest.
  - ZeroGravitas 8y ago
    I've been seeing this talking point around a lot. I'm not sure where it started but it seems to resonate with people and so get repeated. But let me rephrase it: "We can only reduce the noise by 49% by changing the engine, then we'd need to look at tires, which EVs already tend towards low rolling resistance versions of". Which has a different tone than the "let's just not bother" vibe I get from the original version.
drivingmenuts 8y ago
I can live with it if all the cars sound like spaceships from the movies. In fact, that would be a hell of a business prospect - custom ship sounds for your whip. That alone would convince me to go electric. Except for that one guy who's car would make a screaming sound as it passes by.

maxxxxx 8y ago

The safety argument makes no sense. Especially once all cars are quieter.

BoorishBears 8y ago
It makes plenty of sense, at low speeds wind and tire noise aren't loud enough by themselves. My Volt makes a somewhat annoying tone below 25 mph, but I'm glad it does because almost immediately after getting it I noticed an increase in close-calls in parking lots when pedestrians would walk into the path of the car. The noise isn't too car-like so it's less effective than the engine noise people are used too, but it's also probably more effective than nothing.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  I walk my dogs in the morning and for a while I had trouble with EVs and hybrids but now I am used to it and haven't had any problems. It's just learning.
  - anyfoo 8y ago
    The lower the sound level, the closer the car needs to be for you to hear it.
  - CynicalDio 8y ago
    Except if you get hit and seriously injured or die, you will have decreased opportunities to continue your "learning"
    - maxxxxx 8y ago
      One thing I have learned is that relying on hearing is very dangerous. You may have a car coming in your direction and if you don't look the other way you may not notice a car coming from the other direction.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
WorldMaker 8y ago
Blind and visually impaired people still sometimes need to cross roads.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  Do they really rely on car noise? Based on wind and other noise you can't be sure that you are hearing all cars.
  - WorldMaker 8y ago
    It depends on the situation, of course, and in many cases for situational awareness, you can imagine folks want to have as much information/affordances available to them as possible. Car/traffic noise is one bit of situational awareness that is often used. Whether or not there are other affordances, losing any affordance can be a safety problem/hazard.
- jrace 8y ago
  To which a seeing-eye dog is often employed. Given that there is increased lack of "looking while you walk" from many people (due in part to the use of smartphones) noise from vehicles becomes a crucial indicator.
NeedMoreTea 8y ago
Except that's not true, it does make sense. Electric vehicles are apparently 40% more likely to hit a pedestrian than a conventionally engined car. There's been research going on for at least the last 10 years into both the risk and effective sounds that don't simply prove annoying (like a beep would), or lose directionality. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/06/new-law-combats-silent-menace-electric-cars https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/06/new-law-... https://www.rnib.org.uk/rnibconnect/silent-deadly-electric-hybrid-vehicles-sight-loss https://www.rnib.org.uk/rnibconnect/silent-deadly-electric-h...
- icc97 8y ago
  I was being followed on my bicycle by an almost entirely silent hybrid driving on electric power. It really is quite freaky when you know it's behind you and can see it in your peripheral vision when you turn your head but can't hear it.
- icc97 8y ago
  Annoyingly that 40% figure is almost impossible to find, it's from a survey done by a Guide Dogs charity in the UK but their own page on it [0] now just refers to it and doesn't link to the original report. [0]: https://www.guidedogs.org.uk/how-you-can-help/campaigning/safe-and-sound/ https://www.guidedogs.org.uk/how-you-can-help/campaigning/sa...
  - NeedMoreTea 8y ago
    So it is. Can find lots of references to the report, even from gov.uk, but no actual links to it.

mandeepj 8y ago

The sound of engines is not much compared to honking. Sadly, that will not go away with EVs

hasbot 8y ago
Car horns are much louder than these "introduced" noises. Interestingly, at low speeds the internal combustion noises are sufficient to alert pedestrians and bikers, but at high speeds, it's the tire noise that is loudest.
- ZeroGravitas 8y ago
  I've been seeing this talking point around a lot. I'm not sure where it started but it seems to resonate with people and so get repeated. But let me rephrase it: "We can only reduce the noise by 49% by changing the engine, then we'd need to look at tires, which EVs already tend towards low rolling resistance versions of". Which has a different tone than the "let's just not bother" vibe I get from the original version.

drivingmenuts 8y ago

I can live with it if all the cars sound like spaceships from the movies. In fact, that would be a hell of a business prospect - custom ship sounds for your whip. That alone would convince me to go electric. Except for that one guy who's car would make a screaming sound as it passes by.