4 ms·

I'm 100% sure that Pi doesn't include e.g. 0.(3) sequence, or e sequence, or many many other sequences, or even just million of zeroes in the row.

billforsternz 8y ago
Why would you be sure it doesn't include a million zeroes in a row? If the digits are random, as appears likely, it definitely will include a million zeroes in a row. The problem is even if you could turn every atom in the universe into a supercomputer, and somehow get them all cooperatively working on calculating the digits, you'd still never get to the million zeroes sequence in a million universe lifetimes. But they're still out there somewhere.
- v_lisivka 8y ago
  Because geometry of a circle will be skewed if Pi will contains millions zeroes in a row. Pi is not a random number even if it digit sequence looks as pseudo-random sequence.
  - zuminator 8y ago
    One would expect a repdigit sequence of length k to appear once in a 10^k normal sequence. So in the 10^1000000 expansion of pi, one should expect a million zeroes to appear in a row once. You can check this to a limited extent here: http://www.angio.net/pi/ http://www.angio.net/pi/. It only goes up to 200 million (2 x 10^8) digits, but sure enough 00000000 happens to appear twice. (Nonetheless, we don't actually know if pi is normal.)
    - billforsternz 8y ago
      Thanks for this, very interesting. My earlier intuition is more than confirmed; If you turn every atom in the universe into a supercomputer, get them all working together generating digits of pi, for a million universe life times, you only get 10^80 (atoms in universe approx) * 10^10 (10 billion digits per sec each say) * 10^11 (years in a universe life time roughly) * 10^8 (seconds in a year roughly) * 10^6 (a million universe lifetimes) = 10^115 (ish) digits. In fact that is an incomparably smaller number that 10^1000000 digits, only good for a single run of 115 zeroes in a row. Basically there's an awful lot of room between zero and mathematical infinity, and normal large numbers that we experience or even try to reason about in everyday life don't and can't begin to stretch even a little way towards the ultimate mathematical limits.
      - v_lisivka 8y ago
        We can use BPP formula and sampling to try to find 100 zeroes in a row.
- billforsternz 8y ago
  I cannot reply to the reply from v_lisivka (for some reason) but I don't know why you'd think a temporary run of decimal digits in pi would have any effect on the geometry of a circle. It all comes down to whether pi is Normal or not. Repeating the quote above, it is thought likely but not proven at this stage; Quoting: > It is widely believed that the (computable) numbers √2, π, and e are normal, but a proof remains elusive.
  - v_lisivka 8y ago
    My rough understanding is that Pi is representation of certain curve: circle. If we skew sequence too far to one side or another, then curve will lost it shape.
    - billforsternz 8y ago
      I hope it is becoming apparent that you need more than a rough understanding of one of the properties of pi to contribute usefully to the discussion.

billforsternz 8y ago

Why would you be sure it doesn't include a million zeroes in a row? If the digits are random, as appears likely, it definitely will include a million zeroes in a row. The problem is even if you could turn every atom in the universe into a supercomputer, and somehow get them all cooperatively working on calculating the digits, you'd still never get to the million zeroes sequence in a million universe lifetimes. But they're still out there somewhere.

v_lisivka 8y ago
Because geometry of a circle will be skewed if Pi will contains millions zeroes in a row. Pi is not a random number even if it digit sequence looks as pseudo-random sequence.
- zuminator 8y ago
  One would expect a repdigit sequence of length k to appear once in a 10^k normal sequence. So in the 10^1000000 expansion of pi, one should expect a million zeroes to appear in a row once. You can check this to a limited extent here: http://www.angio.net/pi/ http://www.angio.net/pi/. It only goes up to 200 million (2 x 10^8) digits, but sure enough 00000000 happens to appear twice. (Nonetheless, we don't actually know if pi is normal.)
  - billforsternz 8y ago
    Thanks for this, very interesting. My earlier intuition is more than confirmed; If you turn every atom in the universe into a supercomputer, get them all working together generating digits of pi, for a million universe life times, you only get 10^80 (atoms in universe approx) * 10^10 (10 billion digits per sec each say) * 10^11 (years in a universe life time roughly) * 10^8 (seconds in a year roughly) * 10^6 (a million universe lifetimes) = 10^115 (ish) digits. In fact that is an incomparably smaller number that 10^1000000 digits, only good for a single run of 115 zeroes in a row. Basically there's an awful lot of room between zero and mathematical infinity, and normal large numbers that we experience or even try to reason about in everyday life don't and can't begin to stretch even a little way towards the ultimate mathematical limits.
    - v_lisivka 8y ago
      We can use BPP formula and sampling to try to find 100 zeroes in a row.
billforsternz 8y ago
I cannot reply to the reply from v_lisivka (for some reason) but I don't know why you'd think a temporary run of decimal digits in pi would have any effect on the geometry of a circle. It all comes down to whether pi is Normal or not. Repeating the quote above, it is thought likely but not proven at this stage; Quoting: > It is widely believed that the (computable) numbers √2, π, and e are normal, but a proof remains elusive.
- v_lisivka 8y ago
  My rough understanding is that Pi is representation of certain curve: circle. If we skew sequence too far to one side or another, then curve will lost it shape.
  - billforsternz 8y ago
    I hope it is becoming apparent that you need more than a rough understanding of one of the properties of pi to contribute usefully to the discussion.