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> it's obvious that having experienced software engineers tutor learning programmers is not a reasonable solution, and it's a completely non-interesting result

> it's obvious that having experienced software engineers tutor learning programmers is not a reasonable solution, and it's a completely non-interesting result that 1-on-1 tutoring is more effective than classroom learning For the record, it's not obvious. Many people have suggested an apprenticeship system for software engineers would be an improvement. I'm not sure it's the system I'd choose, but it isn't obviously bad to me.

mercer 8y ago
I believe programming is one of those things where 1) a lot of knowledge/ability can be transferred in a tutoring setting, and 2) the worth of this is high (considering the cost/benefit of good programmers). While I find it hard to properly explain this, my experience is that this is not as 'obvious' for many kinds of jobs. Off the cuff I'd say it has something to do with the relatively insular/individualistic nature of programming (although I'd say this applies even to larger entities like a company), as well as the general 'craftsman' feeling I get from how my job actually feels. Perhaps tooling also plays a big role. I'd say a sizeable chunk of my improvement when it comes to doing my job fast and well consists of using the right tools. When I sit down with other programmers, I'm often amazed by how much time they waste (and I used to waste) using suboptimal 'tooling'. These are things that are often difficult to learn from tutorials or classes. Regardless, if I were to have junior programmers under my wing, I'd probably try to make sure there's some degree of tutoring going on, not just for the benefit of the juniors, but because I think it can really make a huge difference in their value to me.
MrEldritch 8y ago
>apprenticeship Y'know, that's actually an interesting thought. Maybe most programming's best understood as a craft or trade, like being a plumber or electrician[1]. It's a fundamentally blue-collar job that you happen to do while sitting at a keyboard. It's like if we insisted that all electrician work, including things like house wiring and utility pole maintenance, required a full four-year electrical engineering degree. [1]This is not an insult. "X is basically just plumbing" is said with a sneer by fools who drastically underestimate how difficult and complicated plumbing actually is. There's a reason they're so expensive.

mercer 8y ago

I believe programming is one of those things where 1) a lot of knowledge/ability can be transferred in a tutoring setting, and 2) the worth of this is high (considering the cost/benefit of good programmers). While I find it hard to properly explain this, my experience is that this is not as 'obvious' for many kinds of jobs. Off the cuff I'd say it has something to do with the relatively insular/individualistic nature of programming (although I'd say this applies even to larger entities like a company), as well as the general 'craftsman' feeling I get from how my job actually feels. Perhaps tooling also plays a big role. I'd say a sizeable chunk of my improvement when it comes to doing my job fast and well consists of using the right tools. When I sit down with other programmers, I'm often amazed by how much time they waste (and I used to waste) using suboptimal 'tooling'. These are things that are often difficult to learn from tutorials or classes. Regardless, if I were to have junior programmers under my wing, I'd probably try to make sure there's some degree of tutoring going on, not just for the benefit of the juniors, but because I think it can really make a huge difference in their value to me.

MrEldritch 8y ago

>apprenticeship Y'know, that's actually an interesting thought. Maybe most programming's best understood as a craft or trade, like being a plumber or electrician[1]. It's a fundamentally blue-collar job that you happen to do while sitting at a keyboard. It's like if we insisted that all electrician work, including things like house wiring and utility pole maintenance, required a full four-year electrical engineering degree. [1]This is not an insult. "X is basically just plumbing" is said with a sneer by fools who drastically underestimate how difficult and complicated plumbing actually is. There's a reason they're so expensive.