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1) Apple has a pretty good privacy record so I'm more inclined to trust them on this one. Go ahead, light me up for saying that. :-) 2) No one I know ever call

1) Apple has a pretty good privacy record so I'm more inclined to trust them on this one. Go ahead, light me up for saying that. :-) 2) No one I know ever calls me anymore. I am however getting 10 to 15 spam calls a day (one literally just came through as I was typing this up). Its so bad that I had to install a paid spam blocker and even that only catches 80% or so. If Apple is looking for ways to deal with these jokers, I am all about it. This is getting ridiculous.

echevil 8y ago
Yeah, numbers of calls and emails being sent could be useful as features in fraud detection. I’m totally fine with Apple collecting that. Reliable spam filter for sms and phone calls are something I wanted for more than a decade.
morley 8y ago
I agree with you. FWIW, the article is talking about assigning each user a fraud score for iTunes purchases. I'm guessing it's so that people can't use new iTunes accounts to game apps, or to use in-app purchases to test stolen credit cards. Having said that, Apple should definitely be more aggressive about blocking spam numbers. My perception is that it does absolutely nothing about them. Does Android do a better job here?
- tsycho 8y ago
  Android does a much better job at this, and it baffles me why Apple doesn't. I get 5-10 spam calls every day on my iPhone, many of them early in the morning (I used to live on the east coast and am now on the west coast). On my wife's phone, most spam calls are auto detected as "Spam Likely" and you can report new numbers as spam, which I presume Google uses to update its database of spam callers.
- hsk823 8y ago
  There's a whole market with several companies that do exactly what you ask for, block spam, but they are all 3rd party.
- random42_ 8y ago
  I've been pretty happy with the way Android is handling spammers. Not only it shows when a call is suspected to be spam, it also gives me the opportunity to flag a caller as such.
  - cmurf 8y ago
    How is this configured? I've never seen an incoming call shown as possible spam. In fact, when I tell Google Voice a number is spam, while it won't forward calls from that number anymore, it still forwards both calls and texts to Hangouts. The only way to prevent Hangouts from receiving known spam is to block the number, which is buried in the app. (I hate Hangouts, it has to be the best self-torture app ever.) Edit: As I was typing this, I received notification on both my phone (Hangouts) and in my web browser (Hangouts) of a voicemail from a number previously marked as spam. "Our system is showing your local Google listing is currently not managed or has not been properly cleaned and verified ..." In Google Voice, this voicemail is in the Spam folder. And yet I received two notifications on my devices for it.
    - random42_ 8y ago
      There is a setting on the Phone app just for Caller ID and Spam and you even have the ability to filter spam calls. I don't have Google Voice so I don't know if/how it works.
- cowmoo728 8y ago
  I worked for a company that scanned credit card transactions for fraudulent behavior and it was remarkable how reliable the correlation between stolen credit cards and iTunes purchases were. Identity thieves almost always tried to spend $0.99 as a test purchase and then hundreds or thousands of dollars of iTunes gift cards. Apple probably doesn't want to rely on the credit card companies to catch this if they can do it themselves.
- jmhain 8y ago
  The android phone app warns about suspected spam callers, and project fi has a spam filtering feature that has worked pretty well for me.
- reaperducer 8y ago
  Apple should definitely be more aggressive about blocking spam numbers. Apple does some work in this area. I know that occasionally I will get calls on my iPhones that have a line underneath reading "Possible spam" or something similar. But I think it's more of a carrier issue than a device manufacturer issue. IIRC, there was a mention in one of the previous keynotes about spam prediction being available in China. I don't know if that's the same tech or not, but that's the only time I can remember Apple mentioning it.
- gwbas1c 8y ago
  I suspect US regulations make it very hard to block incoming calls. I think it has to do with not blocking calls coming from another phone network.
calgoo 8y ago
I hope they add an option to opt out of this.
- bilbo0s 8y ago
  ??? Opt out of spam calls? Or opt out of having them count the calls coming from your phone? I think you should have to EPLICITLY opt IN to spam calls. I think Apple should block them by default. (ie - I think you should be AUTOMATICALLY opted out of spam calls.) Opting out of them counting your calls should be allowed by Apple. Of course, I don't expect Apple to just take on all the fraud that goes along with that. For instance, they should be more than free to subject your mobile app store activity to extra scrutiny if you opt out. Potentially even blocking you from being able to take certain actions on the stores. Because it's obvious that all of the criminals and fraudsters will opt out.
newman314 8y ago
Which spam blocker did you use?
- vikingcaffiene 8y ago
  Hiya. They have a free option that is useless and a paid one that is less so.
  - newman314 8y ago
    I've tried Mr. Number but it's hit and miss. Also, not clear if it is actually a spam app. Ugh. EDIT: Nvm, I reread your post. =) Mr. Number is owned by Hiya.
j45 8y ago
With Apple focusing on creating new mainstream users (beginners) using their devices, there are likely far more users making calls with iPhone than not. With how much MacBooks have increased their phoning home.. But having visibility, wish I could say the same for iPhone/iPad as easily. Your point about spam calls is a good one. I'm not sure how many years you've had your number, or how many people had it before you. I have had my current mobile number a long time and the spam calls from me being on a list are minimal, minus voip robo-dialers. Spam callers seem to use easily changeable voip numbers (sometimes calling from similar voip numbers to my own), part of the spam call issue is likely to encourage the voip phone providers to pay attention to high usage/turnover numbers.
bluejekyll 8y ago
The simplest thing Apple could do is allow us to block any call (straight to voicemail) where the number does not appear in your contacts. I don’t understand why they don’t have this option. They have options that are close, like do not disturb except for favorites in your contacts, but this is a sledgehammer, where we need something more general purpose.
- arkades 8y ago
  You can put all of your contacts in group X, and then DnD, allowing through group X. It comes pretty close to what you want.
  - petecooper 8y ago
    …actually, that's a good idea. Thanks for the tip!
  - bluejekyll 8y ago
    But DnD is the entire device, it’s more than we need here. What you’ve mentioned is a workaround, but not ideal. I want an option specific to the phone function.
  - lucascantor 8y ago
    ...but then you get no notifications whatsoever, except for calls or texts from your contacts. Maybe this is what some people want, but it's not for me.
- Silhouette 8y ago
  In the UK, a service named TrueCall solved this problem very effectively for landlines. When you dial in, it checks the number from caller ID against a whitelist and if your number isn't pre-approved, you get prompted to press a number on the keypad and then say your name. The phone then rings (only if you actually pressed the number, which already stops most robo-dialler spam) and the caller is announced by name but has no opportunity to speak directly to the callee. If the callee approves, they can press a button and the call connects as normal (and optionally approves the number for coming straight through later). If the callee doesn't want to take the call, they push a different button and the caller gets to hear a prerecorded message and gets their number blocked. This technology seems to come built into various mid-range landline phones now, and it has stopped almost 100% of junk calls since we last updated our equipment and got one of those, though it has occasionally confused legitimate callers as well and you do need to turn if off if you're genuinely expecting an automated call such as from your bank to validate something you're doing online. That's not much of a hassle though, and I don't see any reason something similar couldn't be done for mobile phones.
ryanmarsh 8y ago
I am however getting 10 to 15 spam calls a day I recently bit the bullet on that and installed an app on my iPhone that blocks robo and spam calls. It's a subscription but considering how much productivity I loose due to spam calls I figure it's worth it. I had no idea Apple exposed an API that lets an app block calls but it works. Every once in a while a call slips through and I add it to their database. So far I've only missed one call I wanted and that was from Apple Developer Support. Apparently their auto-dialer is listed. Such is life.
- vikingcaffiene 8y ago
  I bet you we bought the same app. Its cut about 80% of em out. Not perfect but I'll take it.
- tonyquart 8y ago
  I have just read an article that talks about TCPA law at https://www.lemberglaw.com/tcpa-compliance-telephone-consumers-protection-act/ https://www.lemberglaw.com/tcpa-compliance-telephone-consume.... It might be useful for you now. You might want to track down the callers and sue them in the future. :)
yawz 8y ago
My simple algorithm can easily be implemented by Apple, and made an optional configuration: If the number is not in my contacts list I redirect it to voicemail. If Apple gives me that I'm a happier consumer. And most of the time, I also google the numbers that I don't recognize, and block them if they are known offenders/spammers.
- badgers 8y ago
  I believe there is a way to do this, if you use Do Not Disturb and make an exception for All Contacts.
  - yawz 8y ago
    Interesting idea, but sometimes I do that when I sleep, so I would need that exception list to be small.
  - gergles 8y ago
    Not really, because then you can't get any notifications you actually do want. (Turning on DND blocks every notification.) Apple refuses to make it so you can actually manage how the "phone" can bother you, and I'm assuming they have some sort of deal with the carriers to be this way.
badgers 8y ago
This would be a big feature for me, whether spam blocking is done by the telephone companies or by Apple. I don't know why they aren't more aggressive about it either; it's not like the USPS, where the USPS makes more money off every piece of spam they deliver. Reducing spam calls would increase customer satisfaction, enhance the brand, and provide a competitive edge in the marketplace.
- sli 8y ago
  The telecos are basically hamstrung, they cannot legally refuse to route calls so far as I know. I'm not sure that allowing that is the best route, either. That's a whole set of neutrality concerns that we don't need. They should absolutely be doing something to stop spoofing, though.
  - tomschlick 8y ago
    They can however refuse to do business with people call spoofing using sip trunks. They can see the real phone # and should be able to compare it to the allocated numbers and reject the rest. If a reseller is allowing it to happen then they should cut off the reseller until they get their shit in order.
TheAceOfHearts 8y ago
That sounds terrible. Have you considered changing your phone number? Putting up with constant bullshit calls would drive me insane. Heck, I'm at the point where I usually only answer the phone for known numbers, unless I'm expecting a call.
- vikingcaffiene 8y ago
  I've had the same phone number since my first mobile phone. I have so much crap tied to it that changing it isn't really an option.
sdinsn 8y ago
> Apple has a pretty good privacy record All companies have a good privacy record, until they don't

echevil 8y ago

Yeah, numbers of calls and emails being sent could be useful as features in fraud detection. I’m totally fine with Apple collecting that. Reliable spam filter for sms and phone calls are something I wanted for more than a decade.

morley 8y ago

I agree with you. FWIW, the article is talking about assigning each user a fraud score for iTunes purchases. I'm guessing it's so that people can't use new iTunes accounts to game apps, or to use in-app purchases to test stolen credit cards. Having said that, Apple should definitely be more aggressive about blocking spam numbers. My perception is that it does absolutely nothing about them. Does Android do a better job here?

tsycho 8y ago
Android does a much better job at this, and it baffles me why Apple doesn't. I get 5-10 spam calls every day on my iPhone, many of them early in the morning (I used to live on the east coast and am now on the west coast). On my wife's phone, most spam calls are auto detected as "Spam Likely" and you can report new numbers as spam, which I presume Google uses to update its database of spam callers.
hsk823 8y ago
There's a whole market with several companies that do exactly what you ask for, block spam, but they are all 3rd party.
random42_ 8y ago
I've been pretty happy with the way Android is handling spammers. Not only it shows when a call is suspected to be spam, it also gives me the opportunity to flag a caller as such.
- cmurf 8y ago
  How is this configured? I've never seen an incoming call shown as possible spam. In fact, when I tell Google Voice a number is spam, while it won't forward calls from that number anymore, it still forwards both calls and texts to Hangouts. The only way to prevent Hangouts from receiving known spam is to block the number, which is buried in the app. (I hate Hangouts, it has to be the best self-torture app ever.) Edit: As I was typing this, I received notification on both my phone (Hangouts) and in my web browser (Hangouts) of a voicemail from a number previously marked as spam. "Our system is showing your local Google listing is currently not managed or has not been properly cleaned and verified ..." In Google Voice, this voicemail is in the Spam folder. And yet I received two notifications on my devices for it.
  - random42_ 8y ago
    There is a setting on the Phone app just for Caller ID and Spam and you even have the ability to filter spam calls. I don't have Google Voice so I don't know if/how it works.
cowmoo728 8y ago
I worked for a company that scanned credit card transactions for fraudulent behavior and it was remarkable how reliable the correlation between stolen credit cards and iTunes purchases were. Identity thieves almost always tried to spend $0.99 as a test purchase and then hundreds or thousands of dollars of iTunes gift cards. Apple probably doesn't want to rely on the credit card companies to catch this if they can do it themselves.
jmhain 8y ago
The android phone app warns about suspected spam callers, and project fi has a spam filtering feature that has worked pretty well for me.
reaperducer 8y ago
Apple should definitely be more aggressive about blocking spam numbers. Apple does some work in this area. I know that occasionally I will get calls on my iPhones that have a line underneath reading "Possible spam" or something similar. But I think it's more of a carrier issue than a device manufacturer issue. IIRC, there was a mention in one of the previous keynotes about spam prediction being available in China. I don't know if that's the same tech or not, but that's the only time I can remember Apple mentioning it.
gwbas1c 8y ago
I suspect US regulations make it very hard to block incoming calls. I think it has to do with not blocking calls coming from another phone network.

calgoo 8y ago

I hope they add an option to opt out of this.

bilbo0s 8y ago
??? Opt out of spam calls? Or opt out of having them count the calls coming from your phone? I think you should have to EPLICITLY opt IN to spam calls. I think Apple should block them by default. (ie - I think you should be AUTOMATICALLY opted out of spam calls.) Opting out of them counting your calls should be allowed by Apple. Of course, I don't expect Apple to just take on all the fraud that goes along with that. For instance, they should be more than free to subject your mobile app store activity to extra scrutiny if you opt out. Potentially even blocking you from being able to take certain actions on the stores. Because it's obvious that all of the criminals and fraudsters will opt out.

newman314 8y ago

Which spam blocker did you use?

vikingcaffiene 8y ago
Hiya. They have a free option that is useless and a paid one that is less so.
- newman314 8y ago
  I've tried Mr. Number but it's hit and miss. Also, not clear if it is actually a spam app. Ugh. EDIT: Nvm, I reread your post. =) Mr. Number is owned by Hiya.

j45 8y ago

With Apple focusing on creating new mainstream users (beginners) using their devices, there are likely far more users making calls with iPhone than not. With how much MacBooks have increased their phoning home.. But having visibility, wish I could say the same for iPhone/iPad as easily. Your point about spam calls is a good one. I'm not sure how many years you've had your number, or how many people had it before you. I have had my current mobile number a long time and the spam calls from me being on a list are minimal, minus voip robo-dialers. Spam callers seem to use easily changeable voip numbers (sometimes calling from similar voip numbers to my own), part of the spam call issue is likely to encourage the voip phone providers to pay attention to high usage/turnover numbers.

bluejekyll 8y ago

The simplest thing Apple could do is allow us to block any call (straight to voicemail) where the number does not appear in your contacts. I don’t understand why they don’t have this option. They have options that are close, like do not disturb except for favorites in your contacts, but this is a sledgehammer, where we need something more general purpose.

arkades 8y ago
You can put all of your contacts in group X, and then DnD, allowing through group X. It comes pretty close to what you want.
- petecooper 8y ago
  …actually, that's a good idea. Thanks for the tip!
- bluejekyll 8y ago
  But DnD is the entire device, it’s more than we need here. What you’ve mentioned is a workaround, but not ideal. I want an option specific to the phone function.
- lucascantor 8y ago
  ...but then you get no notifications whatsoever, except for calls or texts from your contacts. Maybe this is what some people want, but it's not for me.
Silhouette 8y ago
In the UK, a service named TrueCall solved this problem very effectively for landlines. When you dial in, it checks the number from caller ID against a whitelist and if your number isn't pre-approved, you get prompted to press a number on the keypad and then say your name. The phone then rings (only if you actually pressed the number, which already stops most robo-dialler spam) and the caller is announced by name but has no opportunity to speak directly to the callee. If the callee approves, they can press a button and the call connects as normal (and optionally approves the number for coming straight through later). If the callee doesn't want to take the call, they push a different button and the caller gets to hear a prerecorded message and gets their number blocked. This technology seems to come built into various mid-range landline phones now, and it has stopped almost 100% of junk calls since we last updated our equipment and got one of those, though it has occasionally confused legitimate callers as well and you do need to turn if off if you're genuinely expecting an automated call such as from your bank to validate something you're doing online. That's not much of a hassle though, and I don't see any reason something similar couldn't be done for mobile phones.

ryanmarsh 8y ago

I am however getting 10 to 15 spam calls a day I recently bit the bullet on that and installed an app on my iPhone that blocks robo and spam calls. It's a subscription but considering how much productivity I loose due to spam calls I figure it's worth it. I had no idea Apple exposed an API that lets an app block calls but it works. Every once in a while a call slips through and I add it to their database. So far I've only missed one call I wanted and that was from Apple Developer Support. Apparently their auto-dialer is listed. Such is life.

vikingcaffiene 8y ago
I bet you we bought the same app. Its cut about 80% of em out. Not perfect but I'll take it.
tonyquart 8y ago
I have just read an article that talks about TCPA law at https://www.lemberglaw.com/tcpa-compliance-telephone-consumers-protection-act/ https://www.lemberglaw.com/tcpa-compliance-telephone-consume.... It might be useful for you now. You might want to track down the callers and sue them in the future. :)

yawz 8y ago

My simple algorithm can easily be implemented by Apple, and made an optional configuration: If the number is not in my contacts list I redirect it to voicemail. If Apple gives me that I'm a happier consumer. And most of the time, I also google the numbers that I don't recognize, and block them if they are known offenders/spammers.

badgers 8y ago
I believe there is a way to do this, if you use Do Not Disturb and make an exception for All Contacts.
- yawz 8y ago
  Interesting idea, but sometimes I do that when I sleep, so I would need that exception list to be small.
- gergles 8y ago
  Not really, because then you can't get any notifications you actually do want. (Turning on DND blocks every notification.) Apple refuses to make it so you can actually manage how the "phone" can bother you, and I'm assuming they have some sort of deal with the carriers to be this way.

badgers 8y ago

This would be a big feature for me, whether spam blocking is done by the telephone companies or by Apple. I don't know why they aren't more aggressive about it either; it's not like the USPS, where the USPS makes more money off every piece of spam they deliver. Reducing spam calls would increase customer satisfaction, enhance the brand, and provide a competitive edge in the marketplace.

sli 8y ago
The telecos are basically hamstrung, they cannot legally refuse to route calls so far as I know. I'm not sure that allowing that is the best route, either. That's a whole set of neutrality concerns that we don't need. They should absolutely be doing something to stop spoofing, though.
- tomschlick 8y ago
  They can however refuse to do business with people call spoofing using sip trunks. They can see the real phone # and should be able to compare it to the allocated numbers and reject the rest. If a reseller is allowing it to happen then they should cut off the reseller until they get their shit in order.

TheAceOfHearts 8y ago

That sounds terrible. Have you considered changing your phone number? Putting up with constant bullshit calls would drive me insane. Heck, I'm at the point where I usually only answer the phone for known numbers, unless I'm expecting a call.

vikingcaffiene 8y ago
I've had the same phone number since my first mobile phone. I have so much crap tied to it that changing it isn't really an option.

sdinsn 8y ago

> Apple has a pretty good privacy record All companies have a good privacy record, until they don't