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They actually have to test to that degree to follow aviation standards (DO-178b [0]) because they're used in aviation equipment. Dr. Hipp said he started reall

They actually have to test to that degree to follow aviation standards (DO-178b [0]) because they're used in aviation equipment. Dr. Hipp said he started really following it when Android came out and included SQLite and suddenly there were 200M mobile SQLite users finding edge cases: https://youtu.be/Jib2AmRb_rk?t=3413 https://youtu.be/Jib2AmRb_rk?t=3413 Lightly edited transcript here: > It made a huge difference. That that was when Android was just kicking off. In fact Android might not have been publicly announced, but we had been called in to help with getting Android going with SQLite. [Actually], they had been publicly announced and there were a bunch of Android phones out and we were getting flooded with problems coming in from Android. > I mean it worked great in the lab it worked great in all the testing and then [...] you give it to 200 million people and let them start clicking on their phone all day and suddenly bugs come up. And this is a big problem for us. > So I started doing following this DO-178b process and it took a good solid year to get us there. Good solid year of 12 hour days, six days a week, I mean we really really pushed but we got it there. And you know, once we got SQLite to the point where it was at that DO-178b level, standard, we still get bugs but you know they're very manageable. They're infrequent and they don't affect nearly as many people. > So it's been a huge huge thing. If you're writing an application deal ones, you know a website, a DO-178b/a is way overkill, okay? It's just because it's very expensive and very time-consuming, but if you're running an infrastructure thing like SQL, it's the only way to do it. [0]: https://youtu.be/Jib2AmRb_rk?t=677 https://youtu.be/Jib2AmRb_rk?t=677 "SQLite: The Database at the Edge of the Network with Dr. Richard Hipp"

Nokinside 8y ago
SQlite is very high quality software, but they use DO-178b "inspired" testing process. As far as I know they don't have version of software that is or can be used in safety critical parts despite their boasting. They say in their site that: > Airbus confirms that SQLite is being used in the flight software for the A350 XWB family of aircraft. Flight software does not imply safety critical parts of avionics. It can be the entertainment system or some logging that is not critical.
- faitswulff 8y ago
  Good point. The video I linked to merely says that he was contacted by someone in the aviation space about the standard, which I took to mean that it was used in avionics.
- sbradford26 8y ago
  Yeah DO-178B gives several levels for software from DALA (highest) to DALE (lowest). If DALA software fails the results are catastrophic if DALE fails there is no effect on the aircraft. Since DALE is usually just test equipment and such they might be at a DALD level. So still requires a lot of testing but not nearly to the level that DALA requires. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DO-178B https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DO-178B
  - Nokinside 8y ago
    I think it's possible that parts of SQLite, for example file format in read only mode and few constant queries are certified as part of some safety critical software. Hipp's Hwaci consulting company would probably help to do the work, but it has no relation to the SQLite as a library.
- SQLite 8y ago
  Correct. The key word is "inspired". Multiple companies have run a DO-178B cert on SQLite, I am told, but the core developers did not get to participate, and I think the result was level-C or -D. While all that was happening 10+ years ago, I learned about DO-178B. I have a copy of the DO-178B spec within arms reach. And I found that, unlike most other "quality" standards I have encountered, DO-178B is actually useful for improving quality. I originally developed the TH3 test suite for SQLite with the idea that I could sell it to companies interested in using SQLite in safety-critical applications, and thereby help pay for the open-source side of SQLite. That plan didn't work out as nobody ever bought it. But TH3 and the discipline of 100% MC/DC testing was and continues to be enormously helpful in keeping bugs out of SQLite, and so TH3 and all the other DO-178B-inspired testing and refactoring of SQLite has turned out to be well worth the thousands of hours of effort invested. The SQLite project is not 100% DO-178B compliant. We have gotten slack on some of the more mundane paperwork aspects. Also, we aggressively optimize the SQLite code base for performance, whereas in a real safety-critical application the focus would be on extreme simplicity at the cost of reduced performance. However, if some company does call us tomorrow and says that they want to purchase a complete set of DO-178B/C Level-A certification artifacts from us, I think we could deliver that with a few months of focused effort.
redleggedfrog 8y ago
"They actually have to test to that degree to follow aviation standards..." I didn't know that, and that's very cool. Makes me think that the name SQLite is misnomer.

Nokinside 8y ago

SQlite is very high quality software, but they use DO-178b "inspired" testing process. As far as I know they don't have version of software that is or can be used in safety critical parts despite their boasting. They say in their site that: > Airbus confirms that SQLite is being used in the flight software for the A350 XWB family of aircraft. Flight software does not imply safety critical parts of avionics. It can be the entertainment system or some logging that is not critical.

faitswulff 8y ago
Good point. The video I linked to merely says that he was contacted by someone in the aviation space about the standard, which I took to mean that it was used in avionics.
sbradford26 8y ago
Yeah DO-178B gives several levels for software from DALA (highest) to DALE (lowest). If DALA software fails the results are catastrophic if DALE fails there is no effect on the aircraft. Since DALE is usually just test equipment and such they might be at a DALD level. So still requires a lot of testing but not nearly to the level that DALA requires. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DO-178B https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DO-178B
- Nokinside 8y ago
  I think it's possible that parts of SQLite, for example file format in read only mode and few constant queries are certified as part of some safety critical software. Hipp's Hwaci consulting company would probably help to do the work, but it has no relation to the SQLite as a library.
SQLite 8y ago
Correct. The key word is "inspired". Multiple companies have run a DO-178B cert on SQLite, I am told, but the core developers did not get to participate, and I think the result was level-C or -D. While all that was happening 10+ years ago, I learned about DO-178B. I have a copy of the DO-178B spec within arms reach. And I found that, unlike most other "quality" standards I have encountered, DO-178B is actually useful for improving quality. I originally developed the TH3 test suite for SQLite with the idea that I could sell it to companies interested in using SQLite in safety-critical applications, and thereby help pay for the open-source side of SQLite. That plan didn't work out as nobody ever bought it. But TH3 and the discipline of 100% MC/DC testing was and continues to be enormously helpful in keeping bugs out of SQLite, and so TH3 and all the other DO-178B-inspired testing and refactoring of SQLite has turned out to be well worth the thousands of hours of effort invested. The SQLite project is not 100% DO-178B compliant. We have gotten slack on some of the more mundane paperwork aspects. Also, we aggressively optimize the SQLite code base for performance, whereas in a real safety-critical application the focus would be on extreme simplicity at the cost of reduced performance. However, if some company does call us tomorrow and says that they want to purchase a complete set of DO-178B/C Level-A certification artifacts from us, I think we could deliver that with a few months of focused effort.

redleggedfrog 8y ago

"They actually have to test to that degree to follow aviation standards..." I didn't know that, and that's very cool. Makes me think that the name SQLite is misnomer.