4 ms·

I personally know of cases where the defense explicitly got an all minority jury with the express belief they would acquit. But that story won't ever make the

I personally know of cases where the defense explicitly got an all minority jury with the express belief they would acquit. But that story won't ever make the news. Things that make the news are the shocking exception, not the mundane reality.

scarface74 8y ago
It is not the “shocking” exception that minorities get sentenced more harshly for the same crime. The article so linked to also stated that prosecutors had a convention and one of the sessions was basically how to exclude minorities without running afoul of the Supreme Court case that made race base selection illegal. The very post we are commenting on is an example of where there was prosecutorial misconduct and a lousy defense. The mundane reality is that court system and the entire justice system is weighted toward the state and thst there are systemic issues when it comes to equal treatment under the law for the poor and minorities.
- IIAOPSW 8y ago
  Sentencing is done by the judge though. My entire point is that juries, as they are currently selected, is the least bad system of rendering verdicts. I also stated quite clearly that a jury is at least no worse than the society it exists within. None of the imperfections you point out are absent in wider society.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    I could care less whether someone in the wider society dislikes me because of the color of my skin. Heck, I don’t really care about the suspicious looks I got the first year when I drove into my neighborhood where I’m definitely a minority. I do care that the state that has the power to take away my freedom is treating me fairly. I see first hand the difference in the reaction that people have to my step son now - when he is a teenager over 6 feet tall and big and the reaction they had when he was 9 years old and a short cute kid when I met him. I very much worry about him getting caught up in the justice system and falsely accused and convicted for “fitting the description”. And my son grew up in the burbs, attended top rated public schools in affluent areas of town, has a friendship circle that looks like the cast of a CW show and it took years before he realized that his mere statue combined with his race intimidated adults - not teenagers. It seems like the next generation is much smarter.
    - IIAOPSW 8y ago
      What exactly do you propose as an alternative to juries. Its not about caring or not caring about wider society. My point is that a society can't produce a system better than itself. Problems that exist outside the justice system are virtually guaranteed to leak into the justice system. btw you know that you can actually waive you're right to a jury trial and get a bench trial if you really want one. Of course you have no control over which judge is assigned to you. LMK if you seriously want to take that gamble.
      - scarface74 8y ago
        Let’s see. - correctly fund the public defenders office. - get rid of plea bargains for serious offenses. Right now, prosecutors pile on charges that could add years knowing that most people will plea. If every serious case has to go to trial, prosecutors will have to be more careful about when they bring charges. - admit that the “war on drugs” has been a failure and stop locking people up for years for non violent crimes. - get rid of prosecutors ability to dismiss jurors. Yes it will make it harder to convict, but it should be harder. - stiffer penalties for prosecutors withholding exculpatory evidence. - stiffer penalties for police lieing under oath.
        IIAOPSW 8y ago
        Thats all good and I don't disagree but what does any of it have to do with the trial by jury?

scarface74 8y ago

It is not the “shocking” exception that minorities get sentenced more harshly for the same crime. The article so linked to also stated that prosecutors had a convention and one of the sessions was basically how to exclude minorities without running afoul of the Supreme Court case that made race base selection illegal. The very post we are commenting on is an example of where there was prosecutorial misconduct and a lousy defense. The mundane reality is that court system and the entire justice system is weighted toward the state and thst there are systemic issues when it comes to equal treatment under the law for the poor and minorities.

IIAOPSW 8y ago
Sentencing is done by the judge though. My entire point is that juries, as they are currently selected, is the least bad system of rendering verdicts. I also stated quite clearly that a jury is at least no worse than the society it exists within. None of the imperfections you point out are absent in wider society.
- scarface74 8y ago
  I could care less whether someone in the wider society dislikes me because of the color of my skin. Heck, I don’t really care about the suspicious looks I got the first year when I drove into my neighborhood where I’m definitely a minority. I do care that the state that has the power to take away my freedom is treating me fairly. I see first hand the difference in the reaction that people have to my step son now - when he is a teenager over 6 feet tall and big and the reaction they had when he was 9 years old and a short cute kid when I met him. I very much worry about him getting caught up in the justice system and falsely accused and convicted for “fitting the description”. And my son grew up in the burbs, attended top rated public schools in affluent areas of town, has a friendship circle that looks like the cast of a CW show and it took years before he realized that his mere statue combined with his race intimidated adults - not teenagers. It seems like the next generation is much smarter.
  - IIAOPSW 8y ago
    What exactly do you propose as an alternative to juries. Its not about caring or not caring about wider society. My point is that a society can't produce a system better than itself. Problems that exist outside the justice system are virtually guaranteed to leak into the justice system. btw you know that you can actually waive you're right to a jury trial and get a bench trial if you really want one. Of course you have no control over which judge is assigned to you. LMK if you seriously want to take that gamble.
    - scarface74 8y ago
      Let’s see. - correctly fund the public defenders office. - get rid of plea bargains for serious offenses. Right now, prosecutors pile on charges that could add years knowing that most people will plea. If every serious case has to go to trial, prosecutors will have to be more careful about when they bring charges. - admit that the “war on drugs” has been a failure and stop locking people up for years for non violent crimes. - get rid of prosecutors ability to dismiss jurors. Yes it will make it harder to convict, but it should be harder. - stiffer penalties for prosecutors withholding exculpatory evidence. - stiffer penalties for police lieing under oath.
      - IIAOPSW 8y ago
        Thats all good and I don't disagree but what does any of it have to do with the trial by jury?