4 ms·

That's the spirit that got Linus Torvalds where he is now — "Be abrasive, don't pull punches, be a 'git'. People don't care about you, so you can't really hurt

by theoh 8y ago

That's the spirit that got Linus Torvalds where he is now — "Be abrasive, don't pull punches, be a 'git'. People don't care about you, so you can't really hurt them anyway"

senthil_rajasek 8y ago
Linus seems to care these days. This does not translate well across different cultures. I've lived in two cultures and still have a hard time practising "not caring" about other people.
coldtea 8y ago
>where he is now A celebrated 100x programmer at the top of the software engineering hierarchy, whose work helped span a trillion dollar industry? He might have regretted being so abrasive as of late, but let's not paint things as if he failed to accomplish much because of that. In fact it might have helped solidify a more cautious approach around kernel development and keep possible detractors at bay, in the early days, compared to him being too polite and accommodating.
- theoh 8y ago
  Well, we're all saddled with git's total disregard for the user experience. We'd still be struggling with the positive and negative aspects of open source software if Linus hadn't existed, just as the first world war would probably have happened anyway if Gavrilo Princip hadn't precipitated it. Bear in mind that however good a coder Linus might be, RMS is still an influential figure for political reasons despite checking out of the coding business years ago. Politics, charisma of one sort or another, celebrity...
  - GhostVII 8y ago
    I quite like gits user experience, personally. If you don't like it, there are lots of tools built on top of it that make it easier to use. Not sure what the issue is.
    - watt 8y ago
      Git could be a showcase of inconsistent and confusing UX. If you like it, and you don't see any issue with it, then you know nothing about good UX.
      - monadgonad 8y ago
        This is unnecessarily cruel. Design is subjective: someone liking git's UX design doesn't mean they "know nothing", just that they have very different opinions from you. And please don't respond to this telling me all the ways git's design is bad; I'm not disagreeing with that.
      - GhostVII 8y ago
        I never said it was good UX in general, just that it is good UX for me. And with tools like git one you learn the commands the UX doesn't matter. For a developer tool I think that is fine.
- gaius 8y ago
  He might have regretted being so abrasive as of late, but let's not paint things as if he failed to accomplish much because of that. Like Stack Overflow. They got to where they are though encouraging ruthless curation and moderation via earning points and badges. And having won the Q&A industry, now they want to shed that image.
nazka 8y ago
He started to change a while back and now even more. I am sure you missed this that happened recently. https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/CA+55aFy+Hv9O5citAawS+mVZO+ywCKd9NQ2wxUmGsz9ZJzqgJQ@mail.gmail.com/ https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/CA+55aFy+Hv9O5citAawS+mVZO+ywCK...
- theoh 8y ago
  Have you seen that his statement was a reaction to a New Yorker investigation about how his attitude had discouraged women from contributing to the kernel? "Torvalds’s decision to step aside came after The New Yorker asked him a series of questions about his conduct for a story on complaints about his abusive behavior discouraging women from working as Linux-kernel programmers." He is in disgrace.
  - natechols 8y ago
    The New Yorker article didn't reveal anything that wasn't well-known in the technical community for years, nor did it turn up any instances of misogyny or sexual harassment. They even mentioned that there's no evidence that he's been more abusive to women than men. It wasn't clear to me why they even ran the story - seems like they were trying for another #MeToo moment, but just ended up restating the obvious: obsessive male geeks can be a pain to work with (regardless of gender). Undoubtedly Linus is going to need to moderate his temper in the future, but I'd hardly call this "in disgrace", and I don't really see this as something he'll have trouble bouncing back from.
    - hfdgiutdryg 8y ago
      but just ended up restating the obvious: obsessive male geeks can be a pain to work with (regardless of gender) I wish we could get this message out there. If more women are interested in programming, great, but all I care about is making software development less of a toxic, alpha-geek hellhole for the people already in it.
  - captain_perl 8y ago
    Linus has stated many times that he wants less beginners contributing to the kernel, especially the scheduler, which has nothing to do with gender. Be thankful Linux is willing to be the BFDL, otherwise corporate interests will undo 20 years of progress.

by theoh 8y ago

That's the spirit that got Linus Torvalds where he is now — "Be abrasive, don't pull punches, be a 'git'. People don't care about you, so you can't really hurt them anyway"

senthil_rajasek 8y ago

Linus seems to care these days. This does not translate well across different cultures. I've lived in two cultures and still have a hard time practising "not caring" about other people.

coldtea 8y ago

>where he is now A celebrated 100x programmer at the top of the software engineering hierarchy, whose work helped span a trillion dollar industry? He might have regretted being so abrasive as of late, but let's not paint things as if he failed to accomplish much because of that. In fact it might have helped solidify a more cautious approach around kernel development and keep possible detractors at bay, in the early days, compared to him being too polite and accommodating.

theoh 8y ago
Well, we're all saddled with git's total disregard for the user experience. We'd still be struggling with the positive and negative aspects of open source software if Linus hadn't existed, just as the first world war would probably have happened anyway if Gavrilo Princip hadn't precipitated it. Bear in mind that however good a coder Linus might be, RMS is still an influential figure for political reasons despite checking out of the coding business years ago. Politics, charisma of one sort or another, celebrity...
- GhostVII 8y ago
  I quite like gits user experience, personally. If you don't like it, there are lots of tools built on top of it that make it easier to use. Not sure what the issue is.
  - watt 8y ago
    Git could be a showcase of inconsistent and confusing UX. If you like it, and you don't see any issue with it, then you know nothing about good UX.
    - monadgonad 8y ago
      This is unnecessarily cruel. Design is subjective: someone liking git's UX design doesn't mean they "know nothing", just that they have very different opinions from you. And please don't respond to this telling me all the ways git's design is bad; I'm not disagreeing with that.
    - GhostVII 8y ago
      I never said it was good UX in general, just that it is good UX for me. And with tools like git one you learn the commands the UX doesn't matter. For a developer tool I think that is fine.
gaius 8y ago
He might have regretted being so abrasive as of late, but let's not paint things as if he failed to accomplish much because of that. Like Stack Overflow. They got to where they are though encouraging ruthless curation and moderation via earning points and badges. And having won the Q&A industry, now they want to shed that image.

nazka 8y ago

He started to change a while back and now even more. I am sure you missed this that happened recently. https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/CA+55aFy+Hv9O5citAawS+mVZO+ywCKd9NQ2wxUmGsz9ZJzqgJQ@mail.gmail.com/ https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/CA+55aFy+Hv9O5citAawS+mVZO+ywCK...

theoh 8y ago
Have you seen that his statement was a reaction to a New Yorker investigation about how his attitude had discouraged women from contributing to the kernel? "Torvalds’s decision to step aside came after The New Yorker asked him a series of questions about his conduct for a story on complaints about his abusive behavior discouraging women from working as Linux-kernel programmers." He is in disgrace.
- natechols 8y ago
  The New Yorker article didn't reveal anything that wasn't well-known in the technical community for years, nor did it turn up any instances of misogyny or sexual harassment. They even mentioned that there's no evidence that he's been more abusive to women than men. It wasn't clear to me why they even ran the story - seems like they were trying for another #MeToo moment, but just ended up restating the obvious: obsessive male geeks can be a pain to work with (regardless of gender). Undoubtedly Linus is going to need to moderate his temper in the future, but I'd hardly call this "in disgrace", and I don't really see this as something he'll have trouble bouncing back from.
  - hfdgiutdryg 8y ago
    but just ended up restating the obvious: obsessive male geeks can be a pain to work with (regardless of gender) I wish we could get this message out there. If more women are interested in programming, great, but all I care about is making software development less of a toxic, alpha-geek hellhole for the people already in it.
- captain_perl 8y ago
  Linus has stated many times that he wants less beginners contributing to the kernel, especially the scheduler, which has nothing to do with gender. Be thankful Linux is willing to be the BFDL, otherwise corporate interests will undo 20 years of progress.