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There is a good case that five women have been denied the physics Prize because of their sex, including J.B.B. (although she herself disagrees). However, all th

There is a good case that five women have been denied the physics Prize because of their sex, including J.B.B. (although she herself disagrees). However, all the people who won did deserve it, which keeps the prize from being considered a joke, unlike literature (Bob Dylan) and peace (Obama).

cuboidGoat 8y ago
She may be extremely magnanimous about it, but didn't they give the prize for J.B.B's work to her supervisor who had told her that the signals were terrestrial? The peace prize was corrupt from the start. I am, for an atheist, a great believer in redemption, but I do not believe it comes from sticking your own name on a big cash prize for the good works of other people, hence the (unpopular it seems, I must have missed the 'No Stairway' sign) Led Zeppelin reference I made elsewhere in this thread. I am not sure about the Dylan thing, literature is a tricky thing to judge at the best of times and I am admittedly biased, as the second verse of Subterranean Homesick Blues is one of my favourite sentences; Maggie comes fleet-foot, face full of black soot, talking that the heat put plants in the bed, but the phones tapped anyway, Maggie said that many say they must bust in early May, orders from the D.A.
- leephillips 8y ago
  "She may be extremely magnanimous about it, but didn't they give the prize for J.B.B's work to her supervisor who had told her that the signals were terrestrial?" Yup. She has said that she did not deserve the Prize because she was only a student. I don't understand her position, given the circumstances. But I wouldn't want to argue with her about it. Her name seems secure in the history of the subject.
chimeracoder 8y ago
> However, all the people who won did deserve it, which keeps the prize from being considered a joke, unlike literature (Bob Dylan) and peace (Obama) Bob Dylan is one of the most influential songwriters and lyricists of the last 50+ years. The idea that "literature" is solely contained in novels and poetry compilations was abandoned decades ago. Dylan is a poet, and he's made countless contributions to literature in his lifetime. If you're going to criticize the Nobel Prize in Literature, there are sufficient grounds to do so, given the current scandal within the Swedish Academy. But you can't claim that awarding Dylan somehow brought disrepute to the award itself.
- leephillips 8y ago
  Yes, I can, because I've heard and read his lyrics. As Kurt Vonnegut has said, they are gibberish. https://lee-phillips.org/dylanreally/ https://lee-phillips.org/dylanreally/
  - cuboidGoat 8y ago
    Well, the lyrics of Bob Dylan have clearly elicited a strong emotional reaction from you, if nothing else, given you have bothered to make an anti-fan page about them on your personal website. :) I also love Vonnegut, but I wouldn't automatically trust his judgement on verse. Plus a lot of literature buffs claim Vonnegut is nonsense, so he isn't particularly good backup in that field. Literature is nonsense really, as a definition. I feel it is just a word for people who feel they are above admitting that they love to be entertained by stories.
    - leephillips 8y ago
      I don't think Vonnegut is a great writer. But I like the guy, and I just happen to agree with him on this. Since he's held in high regard around here, he's a good buttress for my subjective opinion.
      - cuboidGoat 8y ago
        Of course you know this bit of doggerel verse, everyone does; ... “There must be some way out of here,” said the joker to the thief “There’s too much confusion, I can’t get no relief Businessmen, they drink my wine, plowmen dig my earth None of them along the line know what any of it is worth” “No reason to get excited,” the thief, he kindly spoke “There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke But you and I, we’ve been through that, and this is not our fate So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late” All along the watchtower, princes kept the view While all the women came and went, barefoot servants, too Outside in the distance a wildcat did growl Two riders were approaching, the wind began to howl ... Have you ever heard it with the lines reversed though? ... Two riders were approaching, the wind began to howl Outside in the distance a wildcat did growl While all the women came and went, barefoot servants, too All along the watchtower, princes kept the view So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late” But you and I, we’ve been through that, and this is not our fate “There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke “No reason to get excited,” the thief, he kindly spoke None of them along the line know what any of it is worth” Businessmen, they drink my wine, plowmen dig my earth “There’s too much confusion, I can’t get no relief “There must be some way out of here,” said the joker to the thief ... Now you have to admit, that is not the work of someone who doesn't know what they are doing with language, irrespective of whether or not you personally like it.
bogomipz 8y ago
Could you explain how giving the Nobel Prize for Literature to Bob Dylan is a "joke"? Poetry is most certainly a form of a literature.[1] And Bob Dylan is widely considered to be a poet. Ginsberg considered him a poet. The lyrics for "Mr. Tambourine Man” are in the 10th edition of The Norton Introduction to Literature. The lyrics to "Desolation Row” are in 2006 Oxford Book of American Poetry. Dartmouth teaches a class that analyzes the poetry of Dylan.[2] It was also not the first time the Nobel for Literature was awarded to a poet. Poet Erik Axel Karlfeldt was awarded the Nobel for Literature in 1931.[3] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outline_of_literature https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outline_of_literature [2] https://www.dartmouth.edu/~dartlife/archives/16-4/renza.html https://www.dartmouth.edu/~dartlife/archives/16-4/renza.html [3] https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/literature/1931/karlfeldt/biographical/ https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/literature/1931/karlfeldt/...
- leephillips 8y ago
  Nobody is arguing that poetry is not literature. I just happen to agree with Kurt Vonnegut that Dylan is a lousy poet.

cuboidGoat 8y ago

She may be extremely magnanimous about it, but didn't they give the prize for J.B.B's work to her supervisor who had told her that the signals were terrestrial? The peace prize was corrupt from the start. I am, for an atheist, a great believer in redemption, but I do not believe it comes from sticking your own name on a big cash prize for the good works of other people, hence the (unpopular it seems, I must have missed the 'No Stairway' sign) Led Zeppelin reference I made elsewhere in this thread. I am not sure about the Dylan thing, literature is a tricky thing to judge at the best of times and I am admittedly biased, as the second verse of Subterranean Homesick Blues is one of my favourite sentences; Maggie comes fleet-foot, face full of black soot, talking that the heat put plants in the bed, but the phones tapped anyway, Maggie said that many say they must bust in early May, orders from the D.A.

leephillips 8y ago
"She may be extremely magnanimous about it, but didn't they give the prize for J.B.B's work to her supervisor who had told her that the signals were terrestrial?" Yup. She has said that she did not deserve the Prize because she was only a student. I don't understand her position, given the circumstances. But I wouldn't want to argue with her about it. Her name seems secure in the history of the subject.

chimeracoder 8y ago

> However, all the people who won did deserve it, which keeps the prize from being considered a joke, unlike literature (Bob Dylan) and peace (Obama) Bob Dylan is one of the most influential songwriters and lyricists of the last 50+ years. The idea that "literature" is solely contained in novels and poetry compilations was abandoned decades ago. Dylan is a poet, and he's made countless contributions to literature in his lifetime. If you're going to criticize the Nobel Prize in Literature, there are sufficient grounds to do so, given the current scandal within the Swedish Academy. But you can't claim that awarding Dylan somehow brought disrepute to the award itself.

leephillips 8y ago
Yes, I can, because I've heard and read his lyrics. As Kurt Vonnegut has said, they are gibberish. https://lee-phillips.org/dylanreally/ https://lee-phillips.org/dylanreally/
- cuboidGoat 8y ago
  Well, the lyrics of Bob Dylan have clearly elicited a strong emotional reaction from you, if nothing else, given you have bothered to make an anti-fan page about them on your personal website. :) I also love Vonnegut, but I wouldn't automatically trust his judgement on verse. Plus a lot of literature buffs claim Vonnegut is nonsense, so he isn't particularly good backup in that field. Literature is nonsense really, as a definition. I feel it is just a word for people who feel they are above admitting that they love to be entertained by stories.
  - leephillips 8y ago
    I don't think Vonnegut is a great writer. But I like the guy, and I just happen to agree with him on this. Since he's held in high regard around here, he's a good buttress for my subjective opinion.
    - cuboidGoat 8y ago
      Of course you know this bit of doggerel verse, everyone does; ... “There must be some way out of here,” said the joker to the thief “There’s too much confusion, I can’t get no relief Businessmen, they drink my wine, plowmen dig my earth None of them along the line know what any of it is worth” “No reason to get excited,” the thief, he kindly spoke “There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke But you and I, we’ve been through that, and this is not our fate So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late” All along the watchtower, princes kept the view While all the women came and went, barefoot servants, too Outside in the distance a wildcat did growl Two riders were approaching, the wind began to howl ... Have you ever heard it with the lines reversed though? ... Two riders were approaching, the wind began to howl Outside in the distance a wildcat did growl While all the women came and went, barefoot servants, too All along the watchtower, princes kept the view So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late” But you and I, we’ve been through that, and this is not our fate “There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke “No reason to get excited,” the thief, he kindly spoke None of them along the line know what any of it is worth” Businessmen, they drink my wine, plowmen dig my earth “There’s too much confusion, I can’t get no relief “There must be some way out of here,” said the joker to the thief ... Now you have to admit, that is not the work of someone who doesn't know what they are doing with language, irrespective of whether or not you personally like it.

bogomipz 8y ago

Could you explain how giving the Nobel Prize for Literature to Bob Dylan is a "joke"? Poetry is most certainly a form of a literature.[1] And Bob Dylan is widely considered to be a poet. Ginsberg considered him a poet. The lyrics for "Mr. Tambourine Man” are in the 10th edition of The Norton Introduction to Literature. The lyrics to "Desolation Row” are in 2006 Oxford Book of American Poetry. Dartmouth teaches a class that analyzes the poetry of Dylan.[2] It was also not the first time the Nobel for Literature was awarded to a poet. Poet Erik Axel Karlfeldt was awarded the Nobel for Literature in 1931.[3] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outline_of_literature https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outline_of_literature [2] https://www.dartmouth.edu/~dartlife/archives/16-4/renza.html https://www.dartmouth.edu/~dartlife/archives/16-4/renza.html [3] https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/literature/1931/karlfeldt/biographical/ https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/literature/1931/karlfeldt/...

leephillips 8y ago
Nobody is arguing that poetry is not literature. I just happen to agree with Kurt Vonnegut that Dylan is a lousy poet.