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>"Remember the good old days, when we didn't care about feelings? Yeah, maybe a bunch of women and other minorities got turned away from tech because they would

by adamjc 8y ago

>"Remember the good old days, when we didn't care about feelings? Yeah, maybe a bunch of women and other minorities got turned away from tech because they would be bombarded for nudes, doxxed, and had to endure a lot of racist taunting, but at least _we_ were having a good time, and right now, that's what I care about." This is a strawman, and I assume you are better than that.

onion2k 8y ago
This is a strawman I don't think it is. Those of us who've been in tech for a long time know women and people in minorities who have come and gone from the industry for these exact reasons. You don't have to blindly accept the stories people tell about how they're abused and mistreated; just read the comments on the videos of people's talks, or look at the replies to their tweets, and it's really obvious.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- marcus_holmes 8y ago
  Agree. This is not a strawman. Tech culture is nice and cosy for us straight white men, not so much for others. I personally know several women who have left the whole industry/scene because they'd had enough sexism for one lifetime, thank you very much. If you don't like the anecdata, then there's plenty of studies saying the same thing, and of course the numbers don't lie: there are less women in tech than men (and no, the reason for this is not that they're not very good at it, ffs). Going back to the good old days is not an option if we want more women involved. And I want more women involved, so I'm not going to co-operate with any attempt to go back to the old days.
threeseed 8y ago
I know personally of a few women engineers who have been sexually harassed, discriminated against, belittled at work etc. And very few stay within the industry for very long after. There is a reason IT has such a toxic reputation. It's because it tolerates some pretty appalling behaviour at times.
Ensorceled 8y ago
That’s not a strawman. It’s reframing the original assertion to highlight the problems the author is ignoring. They are not claiming that this is the author’s actual assertion so they can “knock it down” If you disagree with the reframing, please explain why instead of shouting “fallacy”

by adamjc 8y ago

onion2k 8y ago

This is a strawman I don't think it is. Those of us who've been in tech for a long time know women and people in minorities who have come and gone from the industry for these exact reasons. You don't have to blindly accept the stories people tell about how they're abused and mistreated; just read the comments on the videos of people's talks, or look at the replies to their tweets, and it's really obvious.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
marcus_holmes 8y ago
Agree. This is not a strawman. Tech culture is nice and cosy for us straight white men, not so much for others. I personally know several women who have left the whole industry/scene because they'd had enough sexism for one lifetime, thank you very much. If you don't like the anecdata, then there's plenty of studies saying the same thing, and of course the numbers don't lie: there are less women in tech than men (and no, the reason for this is not that they're not very good at it, ffs). Going back to the good old days is not an option if we want more women involved. And I want more women involved, so I'm not going to co-operate with any attempt to go back to the old days.

threeseed 8y ago

I know personally of a few women engineers who have been sexually harassed, discriminated against, belittled at work etc. And very few stay within the industry for very long after. There is a reason IT has such a toxic reputation. It's because it tolerates some pretty appalling behaviour at times.

Ensorceled 8y ago

That’s not a strawman. It’s reframing the original assertion to highlight the problems the author is ignoring. They are not claiming that this is the author’s actual assertion so they can “knock it down” If you disagree with the reframing, please explain why instead of shouting “fallacy”