5 ms·

Here's a Reuters article from back when he was detained in July [1]. It includes this unflattering paragraph: "Myanmar has detained at least 38 journalists sin

by majos 8y ago

Here's a Reuters article from back when he was detained in July [1]. It includes this unflattering paragraph: "Myanmar has detained at least 38 journalists since Suu Kyi came to power in 2016, according to Athan, a freedom of expression activist organization. These include two Reuters reporters who are on trial accused of breaching the Official Secrets Act." I'm starting to think that the Nobel Peace Prize should only be awarded posthumously, or perhaps once a person steps down from power (though this would be hard to quantify). Scientific contributions are rarely undone, but a person's overall contribution to world peace can vary quite a bit over the course of their life. [1] https://reut.rs/2KVsJq7 https://reut.rs/2KVsJq7

jules 8y ago
The peace prize has been a joke for quite a while now.
- cuboidGoat 8y ago
  Not just the peace prize. I've heard of astrophysicists describing the physics award as the "No Bell" prize after Jocelyn Bell Burnell. The peace prize was really a joke from the start though, considering the origin of the money.
  - dagw 8y ago
    The peace prize was really a joke from the start though, considering the origin of the money How do you figure? Is it unreasonable for a man to look at the damage his work has done on the world and wish to atone for it?
    - cuboidGoat 8y ago
      There's a lady who thinks all that glitters is gold...
  - matklnz 8y ago
    What's the origin of the money?
    - nemof 8y ago
      alfred nobel - he invented the nobel peace prize because he didn't want his legacy to be being remembered as the inventor of dynamite and profiting from arms sales.
      - gnulinux 8y ago
        This is why we need more ethics in engineering. If you spend all your life selling arms, you shouldn't be able to use your immense wealth just before you die to change your legacy. "Move fast and break thing". "It's easier to ask forgiveness than it is to get permission."
      - ethelward 8y ago
        Like many technologies, dynamite is a two edged sword. All in all, I'd wage it had much more civilian applications than military ones. And Nobel invented it because of the large numbers of _civilian_ workers being killed or injured in nitroglycerin accidents. IMHO, smokeless powder is, compared to dynamite, _the_ military invention of the time.
  - leephillips 8y ago
    There is a good case that five women have been denied the physics Prize because of their sex, including J.B.B. (although she herself disagrees). However, all the people who won did deserve it, which keeps the prize from being considered a joke, unlike literature (Bob Dylan) and peace (Obama).
    - cuboidGoat 8y ago
      She may be extremely magnanimous about it, but didn't they give the prize for J.B.B's work to her supervisor who had told her that the signals were terrestrial? The peace prize was corrupt from the start. I am, for an atheist, a great believer in redemption, but I do not believe it comes from sticking your own name on a big cash prize for the good works of other people, hence the (unpopular it seems, I must have missed the 'No Stairway' sign) Led Zeppelin reference I made elsewhere in this thread. I am not sure about the Dylan thing, literature is a tricky thing to judge at the best of times and I am admittedly biased, as the second verse of Subterranean Homesick Blues is one of my favourite sentences; Maggie comes fleet-foot, face full of black soot, talking that the heat put plants in the bed, but the phones tapped anyway, Maggie said that many say they must bust in early May, orders from the D.A.
      - leephillips 8y ago
        "She may be extremely magnanimous about it, but didn't they give the prize for J.B.B's work to her supervisor who had told her that the signals were terrestrial?" Yup. She has said that she did not deserve the Prize because she was only a student. I don't understand her position, given the circumstances. But I wouldn't want to argue with her about it. Her name seems secure in the history of the subject.
    - chimeracoder 8y ago
      > However, all the people who won did deserve it, which keeps the prize from being considered a joke, unlike literature (Bob Dylan) and peace (Obama) Bob Dylan is one of the most influential songwriters and lyricists of the last 50+ years. The idea that "literature" is solely contained in novels and poetry compilations was abandoned decades ago. Dylan is a poet, and he's made countless contributions to literature in his lifetime. If you're going to criticize the Nobel Prize in Literature, there are sufficient grounds to do so, given the current scandal within the Swedish Academy. But you can't claim that awarding Dylan somehow brought disrepute to the award itself.
- toomanybeersies 8y ago
  Ever since they gave it to Kissinger won it in '73 it's been a joke.
  - puranjay 8y ago
    Gave one to Kissinger, denied one to Gandhi!
mikeash 8y ago
Maybe they should just be a little more careful about who they give it to. Even back when she seemed like a saint, did she really advance the cause of world peace that much? I don’t see how. The classic crazy example would be Obama’s prize. It was obviously just a “you're not George W. Bush” prize. Hard to take such a thing seriously. They should stop treating it as “we like your political activism” and start treating it as “you have significantly contributed to world peace.”
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
  - ab71e5 8y ago
    You mean President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho?
- chimeracoder 8y ago
  > The classic crazy example would be Obama’s prize. It was obviously just a “you're not George W. Bush” prize. Hard to take such a thing seriously Tom Lehrer, a satirical musician, once said that political satire became obsolete when Henry Kissinger was given the Nobel Peace Prize.
  - mikeash 8y ago
    That is a good example, but at least Kissinger did actually contribute to peace, even though overshadowed by his other activities.
- pmiller2 8y ago
  I'm not sure it would be awarded more than once a generation if they actually required a significant contribution to creating world peace. I don't necessarily consider that a bad thing. Looking at the list of recent recipients, I would say Mikhail Gorbachev is probably the most recent individual who truly, unequivocally deserves it.
  - 8y ago
qubax 8y ago
> I'm starting to think that the Nobel Peace Prize should only be awarded posthumously That's never going to happen. Nobel Peace Prize is a political tool and has always been so. It has nothing to do with peace but advancing post-colonial european interests. Go read the history of the nobel prize and who has won. The prize was created by alfred nobel, noted for inventing dynamite and being a major war munitions manufacturer. Why was Suu Kyi given the nobel prize? Because she loved democracy and human rights? Of course not. Lots of people love democracy and human rights and they haven't won the award. She was given the award because the british thought that they could use her to take over mynammar again and they felt that they could control her. Turns out that they couldn't since she's a nationalist, like her father. Think about it. She was given the nobel peace prize in 1991 while there was no democracy or human rights in myanmar ( it was a military dictatorship ). So her award was "forward looking". What were the british looking forward to? Gaining influence in their former colony. Why was obama awarded the nobel peace prize before he even took office? Because europeans wanted to influence obama going forward. Funnily enough, the nobel peace prize probably influenced obama into helping france and britain by militarily attacking libya. After all, he owed the europeans. Awards are more about influencing the future rather than celebrating the past. This is especially the case with the nobel peace prize. It's part of what we call soft power. Guess what? The chinese are playing the same game now. That's right. They have their own "peace" prize. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucius_Peace_Prize https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucius_Peace_Prize
- majos 8y ago
  If the Confucius Peace Prize is a genuine attempt at projecting soft power, it is a hilarious one. Candidates for the 2017 award included Bashar al-Assad, Rodrigo Duterte, and eventual winner Hun Sen. In 2015 it went to Robert Mugabe.
  - qubax 8y ago
    The candidates you listed shows that it is a genuine attempt at soft power. Just because it's soft power directed to people we don't like doesn't mean it isn't soft power. China is using their "peace" prize as soft power to further their own interests. They are being rather blatant about it as you showed with mugabe winning it in 2015. And europe is using their "peace" prize to further their own interests. Though they do pay lip service to "peace", "human rights" and "democracy". The chinese haven't bother with that much, but if history serves as an example, it won't be long before the chinese pretend to be the champions of the "peace", "human rights" and "democracy" like europeans do. Also, the chinese peace prize winners are suspect for sure. But so are the european peace prize list. People like woodrow wilson and henry kissinger are nobel peace laureates.

by majos 8y ago

jules 8y ago

The peace prize has been a joke for quite a while now.

cuboidGoat 8y ago
Not just the peace prize. I've heard of astrophysicists describing the physics award as the "No Bell" prize after Jocelyn Bell Burnell. The peace prize was really a joke from the start though, considering the origin of the money.
- dagw 8y ago
  The peace prize was really a joke from the start though, considering the origin of the money How do you figure? Is it unreasonable for a man to look at the damage his work has done on the world and wish to atone for it?
  - cuboidGoat 8y ago
    There's a lady who thinks all that glitters is gold...
- matklnz 8y ago
  What's the origin of the money?
  - nemof 8y ago
    alfred nobel - he invented the nobel peace prize because he didn't want his legacy to be being remembered as the inventor of dynamite and profiting from arms sales.
    - gnulinux 8y ago
      This is why we need more ethics in engineering. If you spend all your life selling arms, you shouldn't be able to use your immense wealth just before you die to change your legacy. "Move fast and break thing". "It's easier to ask forgiveness than it is to get permission."
    - ethelward 8y ago
      Like many technologies, dynamite is a two edged sword. All in all, I'd wage it had much more civilian applications than military ones. And Nobel invented it because of the large numbers of _civilian_ workers being killed or injured in nitroglycerin accidents. IMHO, smokeless powder is, compared to dynamite, _the_ military invention of the time.
- leephillips 8y ago
  There is a good case that five women have been denied the physics Prize because of their sex, including J.B.B. (although she herself disagrees). However, all the people who won did deserve it, which keeps the prize from being considered a joke, unlike literature (Bob Dylan) and peace (Obama).
  - cuboidGoat 8y ago
    She may be extremely magnanimous about it, but didn't they give the prize for J.B.B's work to her supervisor who had told her that the signals were terrestrial? The peace prize was corrupt from the start. I am, for an atheist, a great believer in redemption, but I do not believe it comes from sticking your own name on a big cash prize for the good works of other people, hence the (unpopular it seems, I must have missed the 'No Stairway' sign) Led Zeppelin reference I made elsewhere in this thread. I am not sure about the Dylan thing, literature is a tricky thing to judge at the best of times and I am admittedly biased, as the second verse of Subterranean Homesick Blues is one of my favourite sentences; Maggie comes fleet-foot, face full of black soot, talking that the heat put plants in the bed, but the phones tapped anyway, Maggie said that many say they must bust in early May, orders from the D.A.
    - leephillips 8y ago
      "She may be extremely magnanimous about it, but didn't they give the prize for J.B.B's work to her supervisor who had told her that the signals were terrestrial?" Yup. She has said that she did not deserve the Prize because she was only a student. I don't understand her position, given the circumstances. But I wouldn't want to argue with her about it. Her name seems secure in the history of the subject.
  - chimeracoder 8y ago
    > However, all the people who won did deserve it, which keeps the prize from being considered a joke, unlike literature (Bob Dylan) and peace (Obama) Bob Dylan is one of the most influential songwriters and lyricists of the last 50+ years. The idea that "literature" is solely contained in novels and poetry compilations was abandoned decades ago. Dylan is a poet, and he's made countless contributions to literature in his lifetime. If you're going to criticize the Nobel Prize in Literature, there are sufficient grounds to do so, given the current scandal within the Swedish Academy. But you can't claim that awarding Dylan somehow brought disrepute to the award itself.
toomanybeersies 8y ago
Ever since they gave it to Kissinger won it in '73 it's been a joke.
- puranjay 8y ago
  Gave one to Kissinger, denied one to Gandhi!

mikeash 8y ago

Maybe they should just be a little more careful about who they give it to. Even back when she seemed like a saint, did she really advance the cause of world peace that much? I don’t see how. The classic crazy example would be Obama’s prize. It was obviously just a “you're not George W. Bush” prize. Hard to take such a thing seriously. They should stop treating it as “we like your political activism” and start treating it as “you have significantly contributed to world peace.”

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
- ab71e5 8y ago
  You mean President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho?
chimeracoder 8y ago
> The classic crazy example would be Obama’s prize. It was obviously just a “you're not George W. Bush” prize. Hard to take such a thing seriously Tom Lehrer, a satirical musician, once said that political satire became obsolete when Henry Kissinger was given the Nobel Peace Prize.
- mikeash 8y ago
  That is a good example, but at least Kissinger did actually contribute to peace, even though overshadowed by his other activities.
pmiller2 8y ago
I'm not sure it would be awarded more than once a generation if they actually required a significant contribution to creating world peace. I don't necessarily consider that a bad thing. Looking at the list of recent recipients, I would say Mikhail Gorbachev is probably the most recent individual who truly, unequivocally deserves it.
- 8y ago

qubax 8y ago

> I'm starting to think that the Nobel Peace Prize should only be awarded posthumously That's never going to happen. Nobel Peace Prize is a political tool and has always been so. It has nothing to do with peace but advancing post-colonial european interests. Go read the history of the nobel prize and who has won. The prize was created by alfred nobel, noted for inventing dynamite and being a major war munitions manufacturer. Why was Suu Kyi given the nobel prize? Because she loved democracy and human rights? Of course not. Lots of people love democracy and human rights and they haven't won the award. She was given the award because the british thought that they could use her to take over mynammar again and they felt that they could control her. Turns out that they couldn't since she's a nationalist, like her father. Think about it. She was given the nobel peace prize in 1991 while there was no democracy or human rights in myanmar ( it was a military dictatorship ). So her award was "forward looking". What were the british looking forward to? Gaining influence in their former colony. Why was obama awarded the nobel peace prize before he even took office? Because europeans wanted to influence obama going forward. Funnily enough, the nobel peace prize probably influenced obama into helping france and britain by militarily attacking libya. After all, he owed the europeans. Awards are more about influencing the future rather than celebrating the past. This is especially the case with the nobel peace prize. It's part of what we call soft power. Guess what? The chinese are playing the same game now. That's right. They have their own "peace" prize. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucius_Peace_Prize https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucius_Peace_Prize

majos 8y ago
If the Confucius Peace Prize is a genuine attempt at projecting soft power, it is a hilarious one. Candidates for the 2017 award included Bashar al-Assad, Rodrigo Duterte, and eventual winner Hun Sen. In 2015 it went to Robert Mugabe.
- qubax 8y ago
  The candidates you listed shows that it is a genuine attempt at soft power. Just because it's soft power directed to people we don't like doesn't mean it isn't soft power. China is using their "peace" prize as soft power to further their own interests. They are being rather blatant about it as you showed with mugabe winning it in 2015. And europe is using their "peace" prize to further their own interests. Though they do pay lip service to "peace", "human rights" and "democracy". The chinese haven't bother with that much, but if history serves as an example, it won't be long before the chinese pretend to be the champions of the "peace", "human rights" and "democracy" like europeans do. Also, the chinese peace prize winners are suspect for sure. But so are the european peace prize list. People like woodrow wilson and henry kissinger are nobel peace laureates.