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So you agree the business model is manipulative, but that the ones being manipulated should be the "target to blame" for their stupidity?

by mcrad 8y ago

rqs 8y ago
How about I put it this way: Tech companies (at least in the beginning) didn't realize how easy it is to turn some people into mobs. Also notice, I'm not saying people are stupid so don't blame the business model. I rather going to say: Go blame the business model, and while you at it, don't forget to also notify people that maybe they should be more wiser when posting stuff.
lmm 8y ago
One man's manipulation is another's customer service. The business model is to give you more of what you read, share and reply to, and less of what you don't. I don't see how that's "manipulation" any more than my local coffeeshop selling me good coffee so that I'll keep coming back and buying more coffee from them is "manipulation". If your social media experience is "awful" I think that's a reflection of you rather than something inherent in the system. My social media experience is pretty positive, because that's what I engage with and respond to.
- maxerickson 8y ago
  What if the coffee shop were putting a lot more sugar in the drinks than they claimed?
  - lmm 8y ago
    If they were lying to me I'd have a problem with that. I don't think I see the analogy though? I'm told I'm getting an algorithmically prioritized feed of my friends' posts and that seems to be what I am getting?
    - maxerickson 8y ago
      It's a weak analogy. But the idea is that perhaps the algorithm is giving you what is good for them instead of what is good for you. So then you are in the much more difficult place of deciding how they are characterizing the feed and how that lines up with what they are putting into it and so on.
- mcrad 8y ago
  Interesting. I thought the point of the article was about a manipulative business model and its corresponding damage to society. Looking at your individual experience compared to another's is irrelevant.
  - lmm 8y ago
    It could hardly be more relevant. If the business model is a particular kind of manipulation then most users should experience that manipulation. How could we ever hope to judge whether the business model is manipulating people except by looking at more people's experiences?

So you agree the business model is manipulative, but that the ones being manipulated should be the "target to blame" for their stupidity?

by mcrad 8y ago

So you agree the business model is manipulative, but that the ones being manipulated should be the "target to blame" for their stupidity?

rqs 8y ago

How about I put it this way: Tech companies (at least in the beginning) didn't realize how easy it is to turn some people into mobs. Also notice, I'm not saying people are stupid so don't blame the business model. I rather going to say: Go blame the business model, and while you at it, don't forget to also notify people that maybe they should be more wiser when posting stuff.

lmm 8y ago

One man's manipulation is another's customer service. The business model is to give you more of what you read, share and reply to, and less of what you don't. I don't see how that's "manipulation" any more than my local coffeeshop selling me good coffee so that I'll keep coming back and buying more coffee from them is "manipulation". If your social media experience is "awful" I think that's a reflection of you rather than something inherent in the system. My social media experience is pretty positive, because that's what I engage with and respond to.

maxerickson 8y ago
What if the coffee shop were putting a lot more sugar in the drinks than they claimed?
- lmm 8y ago
  If they were lying to me I'd have a problem with that. I don't think I see the analogy though? I'm told I'm getting an algorithmically prioritized feed of my friends' posts and that seems to be what I am getting?
  - maxerickson 8y ago
    It's a weak analogy. But the idea is that perhaps the algorithm is giving you what is good for them instead of what is good for you. So then you are in the much more difficult place of deciding how they are characterizing the feed and how that lines up with what they are putting into it and so on.
mcrad 8y ago
Interesting. I thought the point of the article was about a manipulative business model and its corresponding damage to society. Looking at your individual experience compared to another's is irrelevant.
- lmm 8y ago
  It could hardly be more relevant. If the business model is a particular kind of manipulation then most users should experience that manipulation. How could we ever hope to judge whether the business model is manipulating people except by looking at more people's experiences?