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Things that are interesting about this to me: 1. In Russia, nobody really knows or cares about pussy riot. The western fascination with them is a kind of exoti

Things that are interesting about this to me: 1. In Russia, nobody really knows or cares about pussy riot. The western fascination with them is a kind of exoticism. Nadya Tolokonnikova can fill a 1000-5000 seat lecture hall in a major american city, but in Moscow it'd be a surprise if 100 people showed up. This isn't out of fear or anything like that; think what kind of attendance a young, white, American punk woman doing art pranks in America would draw on the American speaking circuit. It's the same in Russia, to most people they're just not that interesting. 2. In Russia, nobody knows or cares about zona.media. This article says "...Media Zone quickly established itself as one of the country’s most reliable sources of information," but it's basically the modern Russian equivalent of IndyMedia: a protest calendar that only a very small contingent of activists pay attention to with the normal levels of radical infighting and articles written for the echo chamber. Nobody "on the street" has even heard of it. 3. Putin has a slight growing problem with young people who didn't experience the "before" and "after" of his taking power in the 90s, but for the most part nobody cares about these stories. If you ask people "on the street" whether they think Putin was responsible for the apartment building bombings referenced here, most will straight up say "even if he was, I don't care, he's still amazing." There was even a podcast (radiolab?) that actually did these interviews. However, I am very prepared to believe that the Russian state poisoned Pyotr. What I never understand about these recent actions, though, is why? Why go out of your way to poison a no-name activist that operates in fringe circles for researching a story that nobody would care about, even if Putin were to confess live on TV channel 1?

rdtsc 8y ago
> Why go out of your way to poison a no-name activist that operates in fringe circles for researching a story that nobody would care about, even if Putin were to confess live on TV channel 1? A message to the West perhaps? > The western fascination with them is a kind of exoticism. But the West is important to them. They know the fascination and they know the West is watching so they just showed everyone they can be ruthless. It could play on the angle that Westerners should be careful about supporting too much someone like that as their popularity could end up killing them. For example, say Harvard wanted to invite Verzilov to give a talk. Now they might think twice - it would be nice to have him, but would they be painting a target on his back because of it? So it has kind of a secondary chilling effect. Another reason: > Verzilov had been working on an investigative story about the deaths of the three Russian journalists, Alexander Rastorguev, Orkhan Dzhemal, and Kirill Radchenko. It wasn't that he was particularly dangerous because of his political stance but because he started to dig into other journalists' suspicious deaths. So he might have been a no-name but got close enough to uncover things. One more reason: Eliminate the troublemakers early. Don't wait till they become popular. Have someone monitor the media and detect who is becoming "dangerous" and eliminate them before they have a huge following.
- krn 8y ago
  > Another reason: > Verzilov had been working on an investigative story about the deaths of the three Russian journalists, Alexander Rastorguev, Orkhan Dzhemal, and Kirill Radchenko. This is the most likely reason, because: > Russian journalists killed in Central African Republic were researching military firm with Kremlin links, their editors say https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/01/russian-journalists-killed-central-african-republic-investigating-military-firm-kremlin-links https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/01/russian-journa...
  - tim333 8y ago
    The Military firm is Wagner group - >Wagner’s forces remain outside the Russian armed forces, following the whims of their master, the oligarch Yevgeny Prigozhin. https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/08/russian-mercenaries-wagner-africa/568435/ https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/08/ru... And re Prigozhin: >In 1981 he was sentenced to twelve years imprisonment under articles of robbery, fraud, and involving teenagers in prostitution. >His ties to Putin go back to at least 2001: He’s worked on everything from election interference to setting up pro-Putin newspapers to sending Russian mercenaries to Syria to fight on behalf of Bashar al-Assad’s regime. >... personally approved a Russian mercenary attack on US forces stationed in eastern Syria in early February https://www.vox.com/world/2018/2/26/17044930/yevgheny-prigozhin-putin-mueller-troll-farm https://www.vox.com/world/2018/2/26/17044930/yevgheny-prigoz... Probably not the kind of guy who'd worry too much about having an investigative journalist hit.
- zemleamir 8y ago
  > It wasn't that he was particularly dangerous because of his political stance but because he started to dig into other journalists' suspicious deaths. So he might have been a no-name but got close enough to uncover things. This is exactly what's confusing about these actions. What I'm trying to say is that Americans still don't understand is how little that kind of news would matter if it broke in Russia. The polls are not rigged, and people are not afraid to speak freely: Russians love Putin. They do not love him for his human rights record, for his stance on democracy, for his actions against corruption. None of that matters. They love him because he dramatically transformed the economic and physical security of almost everyone in the country. He could proudly claim responsibility for these deaths and it wouldn't change anyone's mind. > A message to the West perhaps? What is the message, and why send it this way? If they care about western opinion, as you suggest, then poison does not seem like the best strategy. The poison is the only reason anyone in the west knows who Pyotr is.
erikb 8y ago
> Why go out of your way to poison a no-name activist that operates in fringe circles for researching a story that nobody would care about, even if Putin were to confess live on TV channel 1? I don't want to support or disagree with the following. I just mention that the possibility exists. In such groups there are also lots of infighting. The more extreme a group becomes the more the extreme leaders also fight each other. So it's totally possible as well, that these guys killed and harmed each other. E.g. the guy killed the three guys and a friend of them poisoned him, or similar.
colordrops 8y ago
Purely speculation, but I suspect that Pussy Riot gets some sort of covert support from Western 3 letter organizations to support the image of an oppressive regime in Russia.

rdtsc 8y ago

> Why go out of your way to poison a no-name activist that operates in fringe circles for researching a story that nobody would care about, even if Putin were to confess live on TV channel 1? A message to the West perhaps? > The western fascination with them is a kind of exoticism. But the West is important to them. They know the fascination and they know the West is watching so they just showed everyone they can be ruthless. It could play on the angle that Westerners should be careful about supporting too much someone like that as their popularity could end up killing them. For example, say Harvard wanted to invite Verzilov to give a talk. Now they might think twice - it would be nice to have him, but would they be painting a target on his back because of it? So it has kind of a secondary chilling effect. Another reason: > Verzilov had been working on an investigative story about the deaths of the three Russian journalists, Alexander Rastorguev, Orkhan Dzhemal, and Kirill Radchenko. It wasn't that he was particularly dangerous because of his political stance but because he started to dig into other journalists' suspicious deaths. So he might have been a no-name but got close enough to uncover things. One more reason: Eliminate the troublemakers early. Don't wait till they become popular. Have someone monitor the media and detect who is becoming "dangerous" and eliminate them before they have a huge following.

krn 8y ago
> Another reason: > Verzilov had been working on an investigative story about the deaths of the three Russian journalists, Alexander Rastorguev, Orkhan Dzhemal, and Kirill Radchenko. This is the most likely reason, because: > Russian journalists killed in Central African Republic were researching military firm with Kremlin links, their editors say https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/01/russian-journalists-killed-central-african-republic-investigating-military-firm-kremlin-links https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/01/russian-journa...
- tim333 8y ago
  The Military firm is Wagner group - >Wagner’s forces remain outside the Russian armed forces, following the whims of their master, the oligarch Yevgeny Prigozhin. https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/08/russian-mercenaries-wagner-africa/568435/ https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/08/ru... And re Prigozhin: >In 1981 he was sentenced to twelve years imprisonment under articles of robbery, fraud, and involving teenagers in prostitution. >His ties to Putin go back to at least 2001: He’s worked on everything from election interference to setting up pro-Putin newspapers to sending Russian mercenaries to Syria to fight on behalf of Bashar al-Assad’s regime. >... personally approved a Russian mercenary attack on US forces stationed in eastern Syria in early February https://www.vox.com/world/2018/2/26/17044930/yevgheny-prigozhin-putin-mueller-troll-farm https://www.vox.com/world/2018/2/26/17044930/yevgheny-prigoz... Probably not the kind of guy who'd worry too much about having an investigative journalist hit.
zemleamir 8y ago
> It wasn't that he was particularly dangerous because of his political stance but because he started to dig into other journalists' suspicious deaths. So he might have been a no-name but got close enough to uncover things. This is exactly what's confusing about these actions. What I'm trying to say is that Americans still don't understand is how little that kind of news would matter if it broke in Russia. The polls are not rigged, and people are not afraid to speak freely: Russians love Putin. They do not love him for his human rights record, for his stance on democracy, for his actions against corruption. None of that matters. They love him because he dramatically transformed the economic and physical security of almost everyone in the country. He could proudly claim responsibility for these deaths and it wouldn't change anyone's mind. > A message to the West perhaps? What is the message, and why send it this way? If they care about western opinion, as you suggest, then poison does not seem like the best strategy. The poison is the only reason anyone in the west knows who Pyotr is.

erikb 8y ago

> Why go out of your way to poison a no-name activist that operates in fringe circles for researching a story that nobody would care about, even if Putin were to confess live on TV channel 1? I don't want to support or disagree with the following. I just mention that the possibility exists. In such groups there are also lots of infighting. The more extreme a group becomes the more the extreme leaders also fight each other. So it's totally possible as well, that these guys killed and harmed each other. E.g. the guy killed the three guys and a friend of them poisoned him, or similar.

colordrops 8y ago

Purely speculation, but I suspect that Pussy Riot gets some sort of covert support from Western 3 letter organizations to support the image of an oppressive regime in Russia.