4 ms·

I think they have plenty of choice. They can say "no", tell these regressive regimes to go to hell, and simply not manufacture/sell their product there, where-e

I think they have plenty of choice. They can say "no", tell these regressive regimes to go to hell, and simply not manufacture/sell their product there, where-ever "there" may be.

responseguy 8y ago
The shareholders do not agree that that is an option.
comboy 8y ago
Do note, that based on those quotes it is not clear that backdoors requested by the US gov are not installed in the US. He just said they don't install any of them globally.
- close04 8y ago
  You're going to be spied on one way or another. I guess it's a matter of picking the side you want to make life easier for. The one you trust more with your data :).
snaky 8y ago
And then go to filtering the "fake news" out, saying "yes" to 'progressive' regimes? Because there is a strict difference between Good and Bad censorship and tracking, right?
claydavisss 8y ago
How many times has Google or Facebook rejected a subpoena to turn over a user's data?
netwanderer2 8y ago
If only business was really that simple. Apple manufactures all their devices in China. Even Google and Facebook are trying to get back to the Chinese market now. People within the industry expect China to win the AI race by 2030 simply because they have a huge data source advantage which leads to better results. It was not a coincidence that Google significantly ramped up their data mining activities when they decided to switch from a "Mobile first" to an "AI first" company. Why do you think Google and Facebook are suddenly willing to bend over to the Chinese government demands just to establish their presence there?
karakot 8y ago
"The Capitalist will sell us the Rope that we will hang them with."
- snaky 8y ago
  If the cheap small mini-fabs to make your own chips to avoid backdoors eventually will become reality, they will be made in China, that's for sure.
freeflight 8y ago
> They can say "no", tell these regressive regimes The US has made pretty similar demands from Google and Twitter and Facebook not too long ago, in the context of "Russian election interference" and even before that on the basis of "terrorist radicalization". The big difference here is that if the US demands it, it becomes the de-facto global standard. The results of this are subtle, but creeping. [0] At this point, the aforementioned three are subcontracting a whole little industry of "content moderators" in places like Manila in the Philippines. Where hundreds of people do nothing but "moderate" social media content, they literally "okay" or "delete" videos and pictures on social media. French channel ARTE made a really interesting, and quite creepy, documentary about it called "The Cleaners" [1]. Sadly it's only been available in French/German, and has been depublished by now, but an English version was shown at Sundance, so that should exist. [0] https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/wnxdv5/the-artist-behind-baby-dick-trump-pic-is-now-banned-from-facebook https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/wnxdv5/the-artist... [1]https://www.arte.tv/de/videos/069881-000-A/im-schatten-der-netzwelt-the-cleaners/ https://www.arte.tv/de/videos/069881-000-A/im-schatten-der-n...

I think they have plenty of choice. They can say "no", tell these regressive regimes to go to hell, and simply not manufacture/sell their product there, where-ever "there" may be.

responseguy 8y ago

The shareholders do not agree that that is an option.

comboy 8y ago

Do note, that based on those quotes it is not clear that backdoors requested by the US gov are not installed in the US. He just said they don't install any of them globally.

close04 8y ago
You're going to be spied on one way or another. I guess it's a matter of picking the side you want to make life easier for. The one you trust more with your data :).

snaky 8y ago

And then go to filtering the "fake news" out, saying "yes" to 'progressive' regimes? Because there is a strict difference between Good and Bad censorship and tracking, right?

claydavisss 8y ago

How many times has Google or Facebook rejected a subpoena to turn over a user's data?

netwanderer2 8y ago

If only business was really that simple. Apple manufactures all their devices in China. Even Google and Facebook are trying to get back to the Chinese market now. People within the industry expect China to win the AI race by 2030 simply because they have a huge data source advantage which leads to better results. It was not a coincidence that Google significantly ramped up their data mining activities when they decided to switch from a "Mobile first" to an "AI first" company. Why do you think Google and Facebook are suddenly willing to bend over to the Chinese government demands just to establish their presence there?

karakot 8y ago

"The Capitalist will sell us the Rope that we will hang them with."

snaky 8y ago
If the cheap small mini-fabs to make your own chips to avoid backdoors eventually will become reality, they will be made in China, that's for sure.

freeflight 8y ago

> They can say "no", tell these regressive regimes The US has made pretty similar demands from Google and Twitter and Facebook not too long ago, in the context of "Russian election interference" and even before that on the basis of "terrorist radicalization". The big difference here is that if the US demands it, it becomes the de-facto global standard. The results of this are subtle, but creeping. [0] At this point, the aforementioned three are subcontracting a whole little industry of "content moderators" in places like Manila in the Philippines. Where hundreds of people do nothing but "moderate" social media content, they literally "okay" or "delete" videos and pictures on social media. French channel ARTE made a really interesting, and quite creepy, documentary about it called "The Cleaners" [1]. Sadly it's only been available in French/German, and has been depublished by now, but an English version was shown at Sundance, so that should exist. [0] https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/wnxdv5/the-artist-behind-baby-dick-trump-pic-is-now-banned-from-facebook https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/wnxdv5/the-artist... [1]https://www.arte.tv/de/videos/069881-000-A/im-schatten-der-netzwelt-the-cleaners/ https://www.arte.tv/de/videos/069881-000-A/im-schatten-der-n...