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Please please please, let me create an account without having to jump through silly hoops like OpenID or Twitter. Your little website just isn't compelling eno

Please please please, let me create an account without having to jump through silly hoops like OpenID or Twitter. Your little website just isn't compelling enough for me to do that. I want to try it though, just to give you some feedback. Please let me create a simple login so that I can do so.

alexeckermann 16y ago
Yup we will be expanding the site soon. We built the site in 48 hours for the Rails Rumble competition. We kept it light as we could. After the judging and voting we will be adding in more features and options for login :) Although we think using Twitter or OAuth is the easiest way. 1 Auth and your email address, thats it. Thanks for your feedback.
- jasonkester 16y ago
  How could implementing OpenID and OAuth for Twitter be faster to implement than a User table? Certainly you've built web apps before, and therefore have a login workflow that you can rip out and drop into a new site in the first 5 minutes of development? One other thing you're missing is that as a new user of your thing, I don't trust you enough to hand across my twitter username or openID. I'm more than happy to create a throwaway account with you, but you're certainly not going to get any information that links my profile with you with my profiles elsewhere. In short, you're losing a significant fraction of your potential userbase. Right now, since this is the moment when you've got more exposure than you'll ever have again. Spend 20 minutes getting a user/pass thing implemented right now, before the sun comes up in the US, and you'll quadruple your first-day signups.
  - alexeckermann 16y ago
    I agree that might be the case but actually the Twitter and OpenID authentication is much safer. 1) When you authenticate with Twitter or OpenID its all done on Twitter or your OpenID providers site. We cant snoop your credentials at all, you dont enter it on our site. 2) Sure authentication is an easy feature but this way we dont need to ask you for your details again, you let us talk to your service and use your existing information. 3) You can kick us off from your Twitter account from Twitter itself and at any time, see Connections section under settings. Some people might be conscious about us being able to access your Twitter or OpenID information but its mostly available to the world on these services anyway. OAuth (which is the underlying technology behind this authentication) is being used more and more. It's much better and safer for end users, its just that initial hurdle to get mass adoption. Its the end users decision if they trust the site or not. Most people have trusted us today :) We cant make any changes to the app whilst its being judged, not one line of code. I do agree that we should look at implementing a base user signup sans-OAuth provider but we cant do anything until Rails Rumble has been judged and voted. It was a 48 hour coding competition with many other developers around the world, see www.railsrumble.com
    - jasonkester 16y ago
      You forget though that you've studied all this stuff. Casual users of your thing won't have. So when you say "Give me your Twitter username and password", they'll say no. It doesn't matter that it's actually safe. It certainly doesn't sound safe, and that's all that matters. Argue against it at your own peril. People are comfortable with user/pass.
      - bryne 16y ago
        You're blowing up a straw man. Quite a few people may actually have an active Twitter session and thus no active password entry even occurs. Open it up to Facebook Connect and it's more of the same. You're comfortable with new user/pass and it doesn't sound safe to you.
        keithpitt 16y ago
        I see what you guys mean. Hopefully when we can add features agin we'll able to implement these things. We had FB connect, but took it out because we didnt have time to test it enough. We also took out username/password auth because we felt it would complicate things - perhaps not?
      - dannyr 16y ago
        I'll argue to the contrary. Lots of sites use Facebook Connect because it actually drives signups. Where are you basing your argument that people do not actually want to give their twitter username and password? In my experience, a lot of casual users do not actually care. We had an email inviter that was used frequently where people actually have to give out their Gmail/Yahoo/Hotmail credentials. You may be comfortable with user/pass but do not make the assumption that the rest of the world are. You may think you're mainstream but you're probably not.
  - dannyr 16y ago
    Hey, cut them some slack. This is for a weekend competition and if they think it is faster for them to implement OpenId and Twitter OAuth, it's their choice. Give them the benefit of the doubt that it makes more sense for them to do this than an email/password authentication. I don't think they are trying a big push for their site right now so they just need to do enough to make it work.
tomjen3 16y ago
OpenID is easier than having to register for each site. And you have Gmail right? Then you have an openid account.
- jasonkester 16y ago
  In what respect? Because you have to type your password twice the first time you use a particular site with your standard throwaway user/pass combo? In exchange for that single extra input box, OpenID forces a longer login process every time you use a site. The breakeven point where user/pass starts beating OpenID in terms of convenience happens at visit number two.
  - sp332 16y ago
    I type "stackoverflow.com", and click "login" then "Google", done. This is the same number of clicks as having my browser save my username and password. What am I missing?
- mechanical_fish 16y ago
  I have something like six Google accounts and a couple of Yahoo accounts and a LiveJournal account and three Twitter accounts and a Facebook account and a bunch of other things that come with OpenIDs. What I don't have is any idea what OpenID I'm supposed to be using for any given service. I've tried to just pick one, but the other thing I don't have is a desire to share my login history with any of the above sites, or to link my identity on any of those sites with my identity on New Fly-By-Night Site X without at least trying out Site X, and possibly checking its references too. Something I do have is an automated workflow for handling usernames and passwords.
steveklabnik 16y ago
Let me provide an equally anecdotal, opposite preference: Please please please, don't make me create an account on Yet Another Website. Your little website isn't compelling enough for me to do that. I'd much rather just use my Facebook or Twitter account. (note, this is actually exactly how I feel, I'm not playing devil's advocate.)

alexeckermann 16y ago

Yup we will be expanding the site soon. We built the site in 48 hours for the Rails Rumble competition. We kept it light as we could. After the judging and voting we will be adding in more features and options for login :) Although we think using Twitter or OAuth is the easiest way. 1 Auth and your email address, thats it. Thanks for your feedback.

jasonkester 16y ago
How could implementing OpenID and OAuth for Twitter be faster to implement than a User table? Certainly you've built web apps before, and therefore have a login workflow that you can rip out and drop into a new site in the first 5 minutes of development? One other thing you're missing is that as a new user of your thing, I don't trust you enough to hand across my twitter username or openID. I'm more than happy to create a throwaway account with you, but you're certainly not going to get any information that links my profile with you with my profiles elsewhere. In short, you're losing a significant fraction of your potential userbase. Right now, since this is the moment when you've got more exposure than you'll ever have again. Spend 20 minutes getting a user/pass thing implemented right now, before the sun comes up in the US, and you'll quadruple your first-day signups.
- alexeckermann 16y ago
  I agree that might be the case but actually the Twitter and OpenID authentication is much safer. 1) When you authenticate with Twitter or OpenID its all done on Twitter or your OpenID providers site. We cant snoop your credentials at all, you dont enter it on our site. 2) Sure authentication is an easy feature but this way we dont need to ask you for your details again, you let us talk to your service and use your existing information. 3) You can kick us off from your Twitter account from Twitter itself and at any time, see Connections section under settings. Some people might be conscious about us being able to access your Twitter or OpenID information but its mostly available to the world on these services anyway. OAuth (which is the underlying technology behind this authentication) is being used more and more. It's much better and safer for end users, its just that initial hurdle to get mass adoption. Its the end users decision if they trust the site or not. Most people have trusted us today :) We cant make any changes to the app whilst its being judged, not one line of code. I do agree that we should look at implementing a base user signup sans-OAuth provider but we cant do anything until Rails Rumble has been judged and voted. It was a 48 hour coding competition with many other developers around the world, see www.railsrumble.com
  - jasonkester 16y ago
    You forget though that you've studied all this stuff. Casual users of your thing won't have. So when you say "Give me your Twitter username and password", they'll say no. It doesn't matter that it's actually safe. It certainly doesn't sound safe, and that's all that matters. Argue against it at your own peril. People are comfortable with user/pass.
    - bryne 16y ago
      You're blowing up a straw man. Quite a few people may actually have an active Twitter session and thus no active password entry even occurs. Open it up to Facebook Connect and it's more of the same. You're comfortable with new user/pass and it doesn't sound safe to you.
      - keithpitt 16y ago
        I see what you guys mean. Hopefully when we can add features agin we'll able to implement these things. We had FB connect, but took it out because we didnt have time to test it enough. We also took out username/password auth because we felt it would complicate things - perhaps not?
    - dannyr 16y ago
      I'll argue to the contrary. Lots of sites use Facebook Connect because it actually drives signups. Where are you basing your argument that people do not actually want to give their twitter username and password? In my experience, a lot of casual users do not actually care. We had an email inviter that was used frequently where people actually have to give out their Gmail/Yahoo/Hotmail credentials. You may be comfortable with user/pass but do not make the assumption that the rest of the world are. You may think you're mainstream but you're probably not.
- dannyr 16y ago
  Hey, cut them some slack. This is for a weekend competition and if they think it is faster for them to implement OpenId and Twitter OAuth, it's their choice. Give them the benefit of the doubt that it makes more sense for them to do this than an email/password authentication. I don't think they are trying a big push for their site right now so they just need to do enough to make it work.

tomjen3 16y ago

OpenID is easier than having to register for each site. And you have Gmail right? Then you have an openid account.

jasonkester 16y ago
In what respect? Because you have to type your password twice the first time you use a particular site with your standard throwaway user/pass combo? In exchange for that single extra input box, OpenID forces a longer login process every time you use a site. The breakeven point where user/pass starts beating OpenID in terms of convenience happens at visit number two.
- sp332 16y ago
  I type "stackoverflow.com", and click "login" then "Google", done. This is the same number of clicks as having my browser save my username and password. What am I missing?
mechanical_fish 16y ago
I have something like six Google accounts and a couple of Yahoo accounts and a LiveJournal account and three Twitter accounts and a Facebook account and a bunch of other things that come with OpenIDs. What I don't have is any idea what OpenID I'm supposed to be using for any given service. I've tried to just pick one, but the other thing I don't have is a desire to share my login history with any of the above sites, or to link my identity on any of those sites with my identity on New Fly-By-Night Site X without at least trying out Site X, and possibly checking its references too. Something I do have is an automated workflow for handling usernames and passwords.

steveklabnik 16y ago

Let me provide an equally anecdotal, opposite preference: Please please please, don't make me create an account on Yet Another Website. Your little website isn't compelling enough for me to do that. I'd much rather just use my Facebook or Twitter account. (note, this is actually exactly how I feel, I'm not playing devil's advocate.)