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Meanwhile in the US we also have a long history of monitoring internet traffic, installing backdoors and allowing private third-parties to filter what we see on

Meanwhile in the US we also have a long history of monitoring internet traffic, installing backdoors and allowing private third-parties to filter what we see online. Where do we get off critiquing the PRC? We should clean our own house first.

HenryBemis 8y ago
Last I checked, in the EU or the USA you don't disappear in the middle of the night never to be seen again because you are: -follower of different religion -saying the word "democracy" -critisizing a politician/the government so yes, first things first.
- claydavisss 8y ago
  You're moving the goalposts with a strawman. We are no better than anyone else when it comes to information privacy, which is the thrust of this article.
- soperj 8y ago
  Was McCarthyism really that long ago?
- iforgotpassword 8y ago
  Really, does HN deserve that kind of idiotic post? You can walk around China an say "democracy" all day. You think they don't report on eg elections in the US on TV there? People in China complain about the government and laws all day. There is a lot wrong with China that they deserve to be called out for, but what's your goal with a post like that? Show the world that you don't have a clue about anything besides tech? It boggles my mind how many people happily buy any FUD that helps them painting a simple black and white image of the world just so they can feel good about their own country.
  - 07d046 8y ago
    True. It would be a more accurate post if it listed "having a watch set to the wrong time zone" instead (mentioned in the HRW report). It is unfortunate that there is a lot of misinformation about China out there. Winnie the Pooh isn't banned. The social credit system apparently isn't like how it's commonly reported in the West. But I also chafe at the suggestion that China is little worse than the US on these points. There are few countries on earth that have more control over their population and shape the way they think than China. https://www.hrw.org/report/2018/09/09/eradicating-ideological-viruses/chinas-campaign-repression-against-xinjiangs https://www.hrw.org/report/2018/09/09/eradicating-ideologica...
  - okatsu 8y ago
    I don't know about the democracy part but he also mentioned religion and their ethnic cleansing of Muslims seems pretty bad from what I've read.
  - outworlder 8y ago
    > Really, does HN deserve that kind of idiotic post? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: specifically: > When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3."
- throwa9192018 8y ago
  > In 2014, former CIA and NSA director Michael Hayden said in a public debate, “We kill people based on metadata.” > According to multiple reports and leaks, death-by-metadata could be triggered, without even knowing the target’s name, if too many derogatory checks appear on their profile. > “Armed military aged males” exhibiting suspicious behavior in the wrong place can become targets, as can someone “seen to be giving out orders.” Such mathematics-based assassinations have come to be known as “signature strikes.” Source: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/how-to-survive-americas-kill-list-699334/ https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/how-...
- netwanderer2 8y ago
  I'm trying to be as objective as possible. I've never been to China, but I've been to other communist country and the truth is I saw a lot of happy citizens there. While we can sit here and criticize other countries all day, but does it really matter if their own people are living happily there? We can argue and fight all day for the best policies, best technologies, best business ideas, etc. but at the end of the day what everyone is really looking for is just happiness. You can have the most money in the world and still be miserable, our world is already full of those people.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
sushid 8y ago
We do, but this is at a different, unprecedented scaled. As China vies for world hegemony, our future may look very bleak if China's Orwellian views are imposed at a global level.
- snaky 8y ago
  > As China vies for world hegemony China is not going to export their political system beyond the HK and Taiwan, unlike the US. > the country intervening in most foreign elections is the United States with 81 interventions, from 1946 to 2000
  - sushid 8y ago
    You forget China's intervention in the Korean War/North Korea. They've also annexed Tibet and killed/arrested dissidents since the 50s. It's a case of which is the lesser evil. US's style of "imposing" democracy (and toppling it and replacing the government with puppets when it become socialist and/or unfavorable for US corporations) or Chinese totalitarianism.
    - iforgotpassword 8y ago
      > You forget China's intervention in the Korean War/North Korea. Unlike the USA? So if China came along bombing the shit out of mexico, you'd expect the US to sit on their hands? > They've also annexed Tibet Annexed is hardly the right word. Tibet was part of China for centuries, they regained power after a brief period of independence. It's well within reasonable to disapprove of that, but putting it like China just conquered that totally different country that it had no relations with before is just wrong. Same with Taiwan. To China it's a province where the government has been taken over by separatists, so why should they just give it up? Western media conveniently never mentions this so again in the minds of people Taiwan is just this country that has existed forever and is now attacked by the evil Chinese. Just pull up a list of countries which do and don't regard Taiwan as its own sovereign country and not part of China.
- whamlastxmas 8y ago
trolleyhacker 8y ago
This is not a case of either/or. It's a case of both/and. We should criticize both the PRC and the US.

HenryBemis 8y ago

Last I checked, in the EU or the USA you don't disappear in the middle of the night never to be seen again because you are: -follower of different religion -saying the word "democracy" -critisizing a politician/the government so yes, first things first.

claydavisss 8y ago
You're moving the goalposts with a strawman. We are no better than anyone else when it comes to information privacy, which is the thrust of this article.
soperj 8y ago
Was McCarthyism really that long ago?
iforgotpassword 8y ago
Really, does HN deserve that kind of idiotic post? You can walk around China an say "democracy" all day. You think they don't report on eg elections in the US on TV there? People in China complain about the government and laws all day. There is a lot wrong with China that they deserve to be called out for, but what's your goal with a post like that? Show the world that you don't have a clue about anything besides tech? It boggles my mind how many people happily buy any FUD that helps them painting a simple black and white image of the world just so they can feel good about their own country.
- 07d046 8y ago
  True. It would be a more accurate post if it listed "having a watch set to the wrong time zone" instead (mentioned in the HRW report). It is unfortunate that there is a lot of misinformation about China out there. Winnie the Pooh isn't banned. The social credit system apparently isn't like how it's commonly reported in the West. But I also chafe at the suggestion that China is little worse than the US on these points. There are few countries on earth that have more control over their population and shape the way they think than China. https://www.hrw.org/report/2018/09/09/eradicating-ideological-viruses/chinas-campaign-repression-against-xinjiangs https://www.hrw.org/report/2018/09/09/eradicating-ideologica...
- okatsu 8y ago
  I don't know about the democracy part but he also mentioned religion and their ethnic cleansing of Muslims seems pretty bad from what I've read.
- outworlder 8y ago
  > Really, does HN deserve that kind of idiotic post? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: specifically: > When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3."
throwa9192018 8y ago
> In 2014, former CIA and NSA director Michael Hayden said in a public debate, “We kill people based on metadata.” > According to multiple reports and leaks, death-by-metadata could be triggered, without even knowing the target’s name, if too many derogatory checks appear on their profile. > “Armed military aged males” exhibiting suspicious behavior in the wrong place can become targets, as can someone “seen to be giving out orders.” Such mathematics-based assassinations have come to be known as “signature strikes.” Source: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/how-to-survive-americas-kill-list-699334/ https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/how-...
netwanderer2 8y ago
I'm trying to be as objective as possible. I've never been to China, but I've been to other communist country and the truth is I saw a lot of happy citizens there. While we can sit here and criticize other countries all day, but does it really matter if their own people are living happily there? We can argue and fight all day for the best policies, best technologies, best business ideas, etc. but at the end of the day what everyone is really looking for is just happiness. You can have the most money in the world and still be miserable, our world is already full of those people.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

sushid 8y ago

We do, but this is at a different, unprecedented scaled. As China vies for world hegemony, our future may look very bleak if China's Orwellian views are imposed at a global level.

snaky 8y ago
> As China vies for world hegemony China is not going to export their political system beyond the HK and Taiwan, unlike the US. > the country intervening in most foreign elections is the United States with 81 interventions, from 1946 to 2000
- sushid 8y ago
  You forget China's intervention in the Korean War/North Korea. They've also annexed Tibet and killed/arrested dissidents since the 50s. It's a case of which is the lesser evil. US's style of "imposing" democracy (and toppling it and replacing the government with puppets when it become socialist and/or unfavorable for US corporations) or Chinese totalitarianism.
  - iforgotpassword 8y ago
    > You forget China's intervention in the Korean War/North Korea. Unlike the USA? So if China came along bombing the shit out of mexico, you'd expect the US to sit on their hands? > They've also annexed Tibet Annexed is hardly the right word. Tibet was part of China for centuries, they regained power after a brief period of independence. It's well within reasonable to disapprove of that, but putting it like China just conquered that totally different country that it had no relations with before is just wrong. Same with Taiwan. To China it's a province where the government has been taken over by separatists, so why should they just give it up? Western media conveniently never mentions this so again in the minds of people Taiwan is just this country that has existed forever and is now attacked by the evil Chinese. Just pull up a list of countries which do and don't regard Taiwan as its own sovereign country and not part of China.
whamlastxmas 8y ago

trolleyhacker 8y ago

This is not a case of either/or. It's a case of both/and. We should criticize both the PRC and the US.