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A bit bizarre reading through the comments on here. It's like stepping back in time. Many suppliers demand 0 day terms now: You pay with a credit card or wire

A bit bizarre reading through the comments on here. It's like stepping back in time. Many suppliers demand 0 day terms now: You pay with a credit card or wire upfront, often before service or goods are even provided. Certainly for everything under a few thousand dollars, and often even for five digit purchases. Yes, even large companies. Oh, your super big company wants net 60 (or they'll threaten net 90)? If that even is offered, the vendor almost certainly adds a time and risk premium to the cost (that "early payment discount" is actually the real price. the net 30/60/90 prices are heavily penalized). Vendors aren't your creditors. Certainly random individual freelancers aren't. The notion that you, the customer, start a relationship with a payment company that demands a fee to get paid is absolutely ludicrous. Despite all of the splitting of hairs, it is far closer to a payday loan than it is factoring (FastFunds/WorkMark or whatever has their relationship with the publisher, not with the freelancer who just wants his cash, much less at the usurious prices). What a world when even the people of HN are defending these practices.

planteen 8y ago
> Many suppliers demand 0 day terms now: You pay with a credit card or wire upfront, often before service or goods are even provided. Certainly for everything under a few thousand dollars, and often even for five digit purchases. Yes, even large companies. I'm not necessarily defending it, but it just seems to be how the world works. I've been on this side of things as both a freelancer and as an employee of small companies invoicing bigger ones. Maybe if the product is physical, like semiconductors, things are different? My experience was with lots of 5-6 digit software engineering work. Sometimes there was up front NRE payment, but negotiating payment milestones were typically part of the sales team. I've never heard of or seen a 0 day B2B contract. It was never my department to question the way the contracts were structured, but it just seemed to be how B2B was done. I'd tell finance whenever I made a deliverable so they could invoice. A big offender of not paying timely (on NET 30/60) was the government themselves from what I saw. So it's not just like this is something some shady businesses are doing. At the end of the day, isn't salaried work often NET 30 or NET 15? I've never heard of being paid more often than bi-weekly.
- mmt 8y ago
  > At the end of the day, isn't salaried work often NET 30 or NET 15? I've never heard of being paid more often than bi-weekly. Although being paid in arrears (up to 7? days in California, IIRC) is legal, it's uncommon. Otherwise, on payday, the worker is paid for that day, as well as the preceding 13-14. On average, that means only 7.5 days are "on credit". More importantly, though, it can't be compared to a contractual debt, since payroll is much more heavily regulated by the state. In California, for example, the penalty, even for being late, can be disproportionately severe, and the state has resources to pursue them (plus, PAGA[1] provides an incentive for private pursuit of those penalties otherwise only payable to the state). This difference is an example of why "gig economy" (the article mentions at least Uber, for example) classification of workers as contractors can be such an important issue. [1] https://labor.ca.gov/Private_Attorneys_General_Act.htm https://labor.ca.gov/Private_Attorneys_General_Act.htm

planteen 8y ago

> Many suppliers demand 0 day terms now: You pay with a credit card or wire upfront, often before service or goods are even provided. Certainly for everything under a few thousand dollars, and often even for five digit purchases. Yes, even large companies. I'm not necessarily defending it, but it just seems to be how the world works. I've been on this side of things as both a freelancer and as an employee of small companies invoicing bigger ones. Maybe if the product is physical, like semiconductors, things are different? My experience was with lots of 5-6 digit software engineering work. Sometimes there was up front NRE payment, but negotiating payment milestones were typically part of the sales team. I've never heard of or seen a 0 day B2B contract. It was never my department to question the way the contracts were structured, but it just seemed to be how B2B was done. I'd tell finance whenever I made a deliverable so they could invoice. A big offender of not paying timely (on NET 30/60) was the government themselves from what I saw. So it's not just like this is something some shady businesses are doing. At the end of the day, isn't salaried work often NET 30 or NET 15? I've never heard of being paid more often than bi-weekly.

mmt 8y ago
> At the end of the day, isn't salaried work often NET 30 or NET 15? I've never heard of being paid more often than bi-weekly. Although being paid in arrears (up to 7? days in California, IIRC) is legal, it's uncommon. Otherwise, on payday, the worker is paid for that day, as well as the preceding 13-14. On average, that means only 7.5 days are "on credit". More importantly, though, it can't be compared to a contractual debt, since payroll is much more heavily regulated by the state. In California, for example, the penalty, even for being late, can be disproportionately severe, and the state has resources to pursue them (plus, PAGA[1] provides an incentive for private pursuit of those penalties otherwise only payable to the state). This difference is an example of why "gig economy" (the article mentions at least Uber, for example) classification of workers as contractors can be such an important issue. [1] https://labor.ca.gov/Private_Attorneys_General_Act.htm https://labor.ca.gov/Private_Attorneys_General_Act.htm