4 ms·

Several Wells Fargo executives came right out and openly confessed to fraud and theft of consumers' money, and none of them are in jail and the company has not

Several Wells Fargo executives came right out and openly confessed to fraud and theft of consumers' money, and none of them are in jail and the company has not been adversely affected in the slightest. They paid some fines equivalent to what they make in profit every 13 hours. That's it. Nothing else. If you're running a large profitable company why should you care about security at all? Why should you care about the rule of law at all? There is no accountability, there is no culpability, nobody will ever get in trouble.

derekp7 8y ago
The Wells Fargo thing I really don't understand -- even without government action, I can't believe that they still have customers. How does that happen? I know that when a car dealer does the financing, you may not know who the lender is until you get your first bill, but even so I can't see anyone willingly going with them for any accounts (savings/checking, loans, etc).
- Cyph0n 8y ago
  I've been a customer since before the fiasco and haven't changed because they have a ton of branches in the area and they have been great at quickly solving any issues I run into. I've started using Chase and Cap One online but they have zero branches in my entire city...
  - Consultant32452 8y ago
    I can't recommend e-banking enough. I use Fidelity, but Schwab is also similarly good. Totally free checking, no minimum balances, easy access to high rate CDs, bill pay, and you can use any ATM in the country, they pay all your fees. I keep a few hundred dollars in a savings account locally because I'm paranoid I might want to see a human being, but I've literally never had to use it.
    - Cyph0n 8y ago
      The biggest problem with online-only banking is that there is really no way to get a large sum of money out immediately. The only way to withdraw a large sum is to transfer it to another bank account (1-2 days) and then go to that bank's branch. Of course, you can use checks, but sometimes you need hard cash (e.g., buying a used car).
      - mmt 8y ago
        > Of course, you can use checks, but sometimes you need hard cash (e.g., buying a used car). I use "cashier's checks" [1] to buy used cars, since that still offers more security and convenience (of not handling physically bulky bundles of currency). A trick I learned from reading sites about how to buy at real estate auctions (where the final price can't be known up front) is to use multiple checks made out to oneself, in varying amounts. The ones needed for payment can be endorsed over to the seller, and the remainder can be re-deposited. My credit union will send me an effecitvely unlimited number of these through the mail, if they're requested through the automated system and each for a at least some (reasonable) minimum amount. Still, your point holds. If you need it in a hurry, a physical branch is required. [1] check drawn on the financial institution, not my personal account
      - Consultant32452 8y ago
        I've bought a couple of used cars in private sales. Give them a couple hundred dollars deposit, get a receipt, then make arrangements to do the full payment during business hours when you can meet at the seller's bank and do a bank wire, cashier's check, etc. It would be pretty rare that you can't get this worked out. And worst case scenario, you keep that local bank account open and do an EFT to it when you start shopping.
      - Kostchei 8y ago
        direct deposit works fine in AU. If what you are actually doing is cash to a person. Then you can stay electronic.
- poulsbohemian 8y ago
  Often the effort or cost to get out of a home mortgage or car loan makes you stuck by inertia.
- dzdt 8y ago
  Wells Fargo wasn't really defrauding their customers, at least not at significant scale. Wells Fargo reps were defrauding their internal evaluation targets. The customer damages were incidental and generally small.
- tristor 8y ago
  I'm a Well's Fargo "customer" (more like a hostage) because they bought my mortgage from the local lender I originally went through. I have no legal way to stop being a Well's Fargo "customer" that does not result in direct and long-term financial penalties. Considering that they hold one of the largest mortgage portfolios in the US, I'd guess that many other "customers" of Well's Fargo are in the same boat. I hate both Bank of America and Well's Fargo with a passion and the outcome of 2008 didn't dissuade my disgust at them. Unfortunately both hold loans from me that I did not initially originate with them.

derekp7 8y ago

The Wells Fargo thing I really don't understand -- even without government action, I can't believe that they still have customers. How does that happen? I know that when a car dealer does the financing, you may not know who the lender is until you get your first bill, but even so I can't see anyone willingly going with them for any accounts (savings/checking, loans, etc).

Cyph0n 8y ago
I've been a customer since before the fiasco and haven't changed because they have a ton of branches in the area and they have been great at quickly solving any issues I run into. I've started using Chase and Cap One online but they have zero branches in my entire city...
- Consultant32452 8y ago
  I can't recommend e-banking enough. I use Fidelity, but Schwab is also similarly good. Totally free checking, no minimum balances, easy access to high rate CDs, bill pay, and you can use any ATM in the country, they pay all your fees. I keep a few hundred dollars in a savings account locally because I'm paranoid I might want to see a human being, but I've literally never had to use it.
  - Cyph0n 8y ago
    The biggest problem with online-only banking is that there is really no way to get a large sum of money out immediately. The only way to withdraw a large sum is to transfer it to another bank account (1-2 days) and then go to that bank's branch. Of course, you can use checks, but sometimes you need hard cash (e.g., buying a used car).
    - mmt 8y ago
      > Of course, you can use checks, but sometimes you need hard cash (e.g., buying a used car). I use "cashier's checks" [1] to buy used cars, since that still offers more security and convenience (of not handling physically bulky bundles of currency). A trick I learned from reading sites about how to buy at real estate auctions (where the final price can't be known up front) is to use multiple checks made out to oneself, in varying amounts. The ones needed for payment can be endorsed over to the seller, and the remainder can be re-deposited. My credit union will send me an effecitvely unlimited number of these through the mail, if they're requested through the automated system and each for a at least some (reasonable) minimum amount. Still, your point holds. If you need it in a hurry, a physical branch is required. [1] check drawn on the financial institution, not my personal account
    - Consultant32452 8y ago
      I've bought a couple of used cars in private sales. Give them a couple hundred dollars deposit, get a receipt, then make arrangements to do the full payment during business hours when you can meet at the seller's bank and do a bank wire, cashier's check, etc. It would be pretty rare that you can't get this worked out. And worst case scenario, you keep that local bank account open and do an EFT to it when you start shopping.
    - Kostchei 8y ago
      direct deposit works fine in AU. If what you are actually doing is cash to a person. Then you can stay electronic.
poulsbohemian 8y ago
Often the effort or cost to get out of a home mortgage or car loan makes you stuck by inertia.
dzdt 8y ago
Wells Fargo wasn't really defrauding their customers, at least not at significant scale. Wells Fargo reps were defrauding their internal evaluation targets. The customer damages were incidental and generally small.
tristor 8y ago
I'm a Well's Fargo "customer" (more like a hostage) because they bought my mortgage from the local lender I originally went through. I have no legal way to stop being a Well's Fargo "customer" that does not result in direct and long-term financial penalties. Considering that they hold one of the largest mortgage portfolios in the US, I'd guess that many other "customers" of Well's Fargo are in the same boat. I hate both Bank of America and Well's Fargo with a passion and the outcome of 2008 didn't dissuade my disgust at them. Unfortunately both hold loans from me that I did not initially originate with them.