4 ms·

From the CDC: More than 750,000 hospitalizations occur each year because of AFib. The condition contributes to an estimated 130,000 deaths each year. The death

From the CDC: More than 750,000 hospitalizations occur each year because of AFib. The condition contributes to an estimated 130,000 deaths each year. The death rate from AFib as the primary or a contributing cause of death has been rising for more than two decades.3,4 AFib costs the United States about $6 billion each year. Medical costs for people who have AFib are about $8,705 higher per year than for people who do not have AFib. AFib Facts An estimated 2.7–6.1 million people in the United States have AFib. With the aging of the U.S. population, this number is expected to increase. Approximately 2% of people younger than age 65 have AFib, while about 9% of people aged 65 years or older have AFib. African Americans are less likely than those of European descent to have AFib. Because AFib cases increase with age and women generally live longer than men, more women than men experience AFib.[1] I think the inclusion of a ECG and afib detection is going to make a huge difference in many people's lives. Also consider that they may have raised the price, but not hugely significantly. I've had two ECGs done in the past year, and I'm sure each one cost my insurance more than the price difference of the watch. One of my friends is highly skeptical of Apple's privacy and who will have access to this data, but as far as I can tell Apple does not have access to, or share health data with anyone. Although, maybe we should be concerned about people giving insurance access to this data without realizing the implications to their coverage/premiums. [1]: https://www.cdc.gov/dhdsp/data_statistics/fact_sheets/fs_atrial_fibrillation.htm https://www.cdc.gov/dhdsp/data_statistics/fact_sheets/fs_atr...

saagarjha 8y ago
> One of my friends is highly skeptical of Apple's privacy and who will have access to this data, but as far as I can tell Apple does not have access to, or share health data with anyone. By default, the data stays on your device or is encrypted end-to-end if you store it in iCloud. A while back you could share your heart data for a health study, but you had to opt in.
- emit_time 8y ago
  That's what I thought, I was trying to find information on their policies about metadata collection or anything like that, I didn't spend much time looking though. But given Apple's stance and track record with privacy I'd be amazed if they violated that with health data.
  - singularity2001 8y ago
    Once it's in the cloud, the government (NSA) can read it on demand, encryption or not. Edit: "No one else, not even Apple, can access end-to-end encrypted information." Strong words, and AES-128, maybe I was wrong.
    - saagarjha 8y ago
      They can't if the only keys to access it are on your device, unless there's a fundamental flaw in how our cryptography is supposed to work.
      - singularity2001 8y ago
        > unless there's a fundamental flaw in our cryptography They compromised elliptic curves. Otherwise it depends on what Apple uses for encryption.
        saagarjha 8y ago
        "A minimum of 128-bit AES": https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303
        ninkendo 8y ago
        Source?
        newscracker 8y ago
        If this is your argument, then nothing on this planet is secure or safe from the NSA. Take into account the speculative execution related flaws, like Spectre and Meltdown, found in all major CPUs (including ARM based ones), nothing is unbreakable.
        singularity2001 8y ago
        There are many encryption methods safe from the NSA, but you are right, once they attack the CPU backbones almost nothing on the market is unbreakable.
mikestew 8y ago
I think the inclusion of a ECG and afib detection is going to make a huge difference in many people's lives I'm quite content with my Garmin Fenix, but this is the one reason I'm considering an Apple Watch this round. I have had (still have?) Wolf-Parkinson's syndrome, had the ablation, haven't had problems since. But, you know, it'd be an excuse to buy a new gadget, right? And it does look like Apple Watch might finally start being usable as a running watch. And, man, what I would've given for the ECG fifteen years ago when the docs were trying to get a repro. Wore a big mobile ECG thing for a few weeks, then gave up. I don't know that it's fit for purpose, but it would have been nice to just wear an Apple Watch until it repro'ed rather than time-boxing it with a rented device.
- jbverschoor 8y ago
  The QardioCore is pretty decent too. It can show a flutter on the ecg. The problem I see with the watch is that you have to manually start it (30 seconds touching the crown). I think the QardioCore needs the app to record this, but I am not sure.
  - rootusrootus 8y ago
    There isn't any way around that unless you wear the strap (like the QardioCore) or otherwise have a semi-permanent lead attached to your other arm. You need an electrode on each arm one way or another, or use one of the other EKG leads that uses electrodes on on your chest.
patcheudor 8y ago
>I've had two ECGs done in the past year, and I'm sure each one cost my insurance more than the price difference of the watch. Average cost of an ECG in the US is $188.
- rootusrootus 8y ago
  Before or after insurance? I got charged just under $400 to use a Holter monitor for a day. I could buy the device for under $300. And I paid another $400 for a tech (not a Dr, mind you, just a tech) to confirm that the automatic analysis from the computer was accurate. That was technically with insurance, but on a high-deductible plan so I basically paid it out of pocket.
  - patcheudor 8y ago
    Single visit test.
rootusrootus 8y ago
As someone who experienced two recent events of tachycardia (strongly suspected to be some kind of SVT, not captured on EKG ... yet) as well as ongoing PVCs 24x7, the heart features are what is going to drive me to replace my S1 with an S4. That and my desire to loosen my direct connection with the phone by putting cellular in the watch itself. I carry around an EKG now with my phone (simple lead 1 device just like what is on the S4), so it will be nice to lose that. And the watch may do a better job of that anyway since it will be directly connected instead of sonically. I could go on and on about the insurance cost of an EKG. You can buy the EKG (well, at least a decent Holter monitor) for less than what insurance charges to rent it for a day.

saagarjha 8y ago

> One of my friends is highly skeptical of Apple's privacy and who will have access to this data, but as far as I can tell Apple does not have access to, or share health data with anyone. By default, the data stays on your device or is encrypted end-to-end if you store it in iCloud. A while back you could share your heart data for a health study, but you had to opt in.

emit_time 8y ago
That's what I thought, I was trying to find information on their policies about metadata collection or anything like that, I didn't spend much time looking though. But given Apple's stance and track record with privacy I'd be amazed if they violated that with health data.
- singularity2001 8y ago
  Once it's in the cloud, the government (NSA) can read it on demand, encryption or not. Edit: "No one else, not even Apple, can access end-to-end encrypted information." Strong words, and AES-128, maybe I was wrong.
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    They can't if the only keys to access it are on your device, unless there's a fundamental flaw in how our cryptography is supposed to work.
    - singularity2001 8y ago
      > unless there's a fundamental flaw in our cryptography They compromised elliptic curves. Otherwise it depends on what Apple uses for encryption.
      - saagarjha 8y ago
        "A minimum of 128-bit AES": https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303
      - ninkendo 8y ago
        Source?
      - newscracker 8y ago
        If this is your argument, then nothing on this planet is secure or safe from the NSA. Take into account the speculative execution related flaws, like Spectre and Meltdown, found in all major CPUs (including ARM based ones), nothing is unbreakable.
        singularity2001 8y ago
        There are many encryption methods safe from the NSA, but you are right, once they attack the CPU backbones almost nothing on the market is unbreakable.

mikestew 8y ago

I think the inclusion of a ECG and afib detection is going to make a huge difference in many people's lives I'm quite content with my Garmin Fenix, but this is the one reason I'm considering an Apple Watch this round. I have had (still have?) Wolf-Parkinson's syndrome, had the ablation, haven't had problems since. But, you know, it'd be an excuse to buy a new gadget, right? And it does look like Apple Watch might finally start being usable as a running watch. And, man, what I would've given for the ECG fifteen years ago when the docs were trying to get a repro. Wore a big mobile ECG thing for a few weeks, then gave up. I don't know that it's fit for purpose, but it would have been nice to just wear an Apple Watch until it repro'ed rather than time-boxing it with a rented device.

jbverschoor 8y ago
The QardioCore is pretty decent too. It can show a flutter on the ecg. The problem I see with the watch is that you have to manually start it (30 seconds touching the crown). I think the QardioCore needs the app to record this, but I am not sure.
- rootusrootus 8y ago
  There isn't any way around that unless you wear the strap (like the QardioCore) or otherwise have a semi-permanent lead attached to your other arm. You need an electrode on each arm one way or another, or use one of the other EKG leads that uses electrodes on on your chest.

patcheudor 8y ago

>I've had two ECGs done in the past year, and I'm sure each one cost my insurance more than the price difference of the watch. Average cost of an ECG in the US is $188.

rootusrootus 8y ago
Before or after insurance? I got charged just under $400 to use a Holter monitor for a day. I could buy the device for under $300. And I paid another $400 for a tech (not a Dr, mind you, just a tech) to confirm that the automatic analysis from the computer was accurate. That was technically with insurance, but on a high-deductible plan so I basically paid it out of pocket.
- patcheudor 8y ago
  Single visit test.

rootusrootus 8y ago

As someone who experienced two recent events of tachycardia (strongly suspected to be some kind of SVT, not captured on EKG ... yet) as well as ongoing PVCs 24x7, the heart features are what is going to drive me to replace my S1 with an S4. That and my desire to loosen my direct connection with the phone by putting cellular in the watch itself. I carry around an EKG now with my phone (simple lead 1 device just like what is on the S4), so it will be nice to lose that. And the watch may do a better job of that anyway since it will be directly connected instead of sonically. I could go on and on about the insurance cost of an EKG. You can buy the EKG (well, at least a decent Holter monitor) for less than what insurance charges to rent it for a day.