3 ms·

I'm struggling to understand the utility of a CoC which must never be enforced (because "weaponization" is "bad"). Is HN moderation "weaponized"?

wccrawford 8y ago
That's because you're looking at it in black and white, but the world is greyscale. There are ways to abuse CoC to harm people, instead of protect people. That's "weaponization". That doesn't mean you either always enforce it or never enforce it.
dx87 8y ago
Enforcement isn't the issue, selective enforcement and trying to force the values of a very small subset of people onto a global community is the issue. You can see from other links in this thread where the people pushing for these CoC have a history of making racist and sexist comments on twitter, github, etc., but since it's about males or white people, they aren't punished. Bringing up the double standard about enforcement usually ends with the CoC pushers labeling anything they disagree with as "hate speech" or "racism" so they can say something like "hate isn't just a different opinion" and force out the person they disagree with. Some people forget that not everyone lives in the SV bubble, so they label things like increasing border security and deporting illegal immigrants as "racism" and "nationalism", or using the word "fuck" as sexual harrasment.
toomuchtodo 8y ago
I can most assuredly state that HN moderation isn't weaponized. Even when I've held what this forum might consider "extreme views" (such that it was unwise for Cloudflare to de-platform Stormfront from a freedom of speech perspective), they did not remove my comments nor ban me from HN (but I would argue this also stems from my efforts to argue in good faith at all times). In my view, the situations where CoCs appear to have been weaponized are anything but evenhanded and neutral; they appear more like witch hunt would. I care for civility and respect, but not witch hunts.

wccrawford 8y ago

That's because you're looking at it in black and white, but the world is greyscale. There are ways to abuse CoC to harm people, instead of protect people. That's "weaponization". That doesn't mean you either always enforce it or never enforce it.

dx87 8y ago

Enforcement isn't the issue, selective enforcement and trying to force the values of a very small subset of people onto a global community is the issue. You can see from other links in this thread where the people pushing for these CoC have a history of making racist and sexist comments on twitter, github, etc., but since it's about males or white people, they aren't punished. Bringing up the double standard about enforcement usually ends with the CoC pushers labeling anything they disagree with as "hate speech" or "racism" so they can say something like "hate isn't just a different opinion" and force out the person they disagree with. Some people forget that not everyone lives in the SV bubble, so they label things like increasing border security and deporting illegal immigrants as "racism" and "nationalism", or using the word "fuck" as sexual harrasment.

toomuchtodo 8y ago

I can most assuredly state that HN moderation isn't weaponized. Even when I've held what this forum might consider "extreme views" (such that it was unwise for Cloudflare to de-platform Stormfront from a freedom of speech perspective), they did not remove my comments nor ban me from HN (but I would argue this also stems from my efforts to argue in good faith at all times). In my view, the situations where CoCs appear to have been weaponized are anything but evenhanded and neutral; they appear more like witch hunt would. I care for civility and respect, but not witch hunts.