6 ms·

Refreshing Plaid's brand

40 points by charleyma 8y ago

matchbok 8y ago
Why do sites continue to use the hamburger menu??? (and also hide the menu if we don't decide to allocate 1200px of real estate to basically empty website!?) Such a bad UX for discoverability. Here's what I see: https://imgur.com/a/COfKBYM https://imgur.com/a/COfKBYM
- pragone 8y ago
  I'm confused - what's the problem with the hamburger menu? What would the alternative be on small screens?
  - matchbok 8y ago
    It seems to trigger even on non-mobile devices. If I shrink my viewport to a normal width (900ish pixels) the entire site is basically unusable. :/
    - baddox 8y ago
      Most modern responsive design doesn't specifically target mobile vs. non-mobile devices, but rather simply the width of the browser window. In my experience a width of 900px is generally considered pretty low for a desktop browser, and toward the high end for tablets and large smartphone. Bootstrap, for instance, uses 992px as the low end of its "large" media query, which is intended for desktops.
    - mdorazio 8y ago
      900px is not normal - that's tiny by today's standards. The only plausible alternative at a width that small would be to shrink the size of the text in the menu, otherwise it simply won't fit. Doing that would be worse to me for usability than switching to the hamburger.
      - matchbok 8y ago
        Sorry I don't think you're correct here. There is a ton of wasted space here. https://imgur.com/a/COfKBYM https://imgur.com/a/COfKBYM Definitely room for an actual menu there. Either way, a hidden hamburger menu makes 0 sense on a desktop environment anyway, no matter how much space you have.
        mdorazio 8y ago
        And I don't think you're correct. There are 5 menu items + log in + the API docs button on the main header. If you want all those to fit in a sub-standard width page, you're going to end up sacrificing readability in text. If you want to propose removing a menu item to make more space, that's an option, but just saying "I don't like the hamburger - they could fit the menu somehow" is not helpful.
        huebomont 8y ago
        What you do is fit the important stuff and hide the rest under a "more..." just because it ALL can't fit doesn't mean hiding everything is the only solution.
        mdorazio 8y ago
        What is "important" in this context? Resources and About? Do you just hide stuff under "More" from right to left as you run out of space? How many people are actually going to click or hover on "More" to find out what's under there? There's a reason design trends have been shifting toward hamburger menus for smaller layouts - it's the best design choice for usability and lack of confusion once people get used to what the hamburger icon means.
        huebomont 8y ago
        That's all stuff for the designer and content to determine. But if there's room, it's always better to show the user the choices they have than not.
  - alehul 8y ago
    Would have to search to find the exact studies, but it's been found that a hamburger menu will lower engagement and result in shorter user sessions (particularly, the user will visit less pages). The intuitive answer as to why is that you're burying a very important navigation menu by making it an extra click away (and hidden from view by default). Anecdotal side note, but when I was working on a startup in some industry, we found that our largest competitor by an order of magnitude had a navigation bar at the bottom in their mobile app, while everyone else in the space used the hamburger menu. The experience made it seem like this is common knowledge at the higher levels of app design. Even Apple has come out and explicitly spoken against the hamburger menu as a design element for iOS apps, and instead recommends tab bars.
  - liveoneggs 8y ago
    since I don't use facebook I didn't know you were supposed to click on them until I started seeing articles about how bad they were. It opened a whole new world of menus.
- koube 8y ago
  Don't know if it's just me, but the hamburger menu doesn't even work on chrome + macOS. I click it and nothing happens.
  - graedus 8y ago
    Same with Chrome and Firefox in Win10. Even Chrome's device/touch emulation doesn't work. It does work on iOS Safari. Can't say I've seen such weird event handling in a while.
  - frereubu 8y ago
    Same on macOS + Firefox
- culot 8y ago
  I do know that is the default for many popular Wordpress themes. The hamburger break-point is usually too generous. It looks like its just a poor use of spacing that leads to premature hamburgerization: https://i.imgur.com/kTid0y3.png https://i.imgur.com/kTid0y3.png
Artemis2 8y ago
I learned a new word today! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilloché https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilloché
- teddyh 8y ago
  See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knurling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knurling
faitswulff 8y ago
I saw an article about how a 21 year old brand logo (Lao Gan Ma 老干妈 chili sauce) became a fashion icon[0] for Chinese Fashion Week and wondered what the Western world would be like if companies didn't rebrand so often. The Lao Gan Ma logo certainly wouldn't have the same cachet if it was a 2 year old logo that looked nothing like the original[1]. Is it possible to make brands (or software) that's just "done?" [0]: http://www.sixthtone.com/news/1002903/face-of-chinese-chili-sauce-becomes-fashion-symbol-in-new-york http://www.sixthtone.com/news/1002903/face-of-chinese-chili-... [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/9ewvb7/firefox_logo_concept_by_mark_forge/ https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/9ewvb7/firefox_log...
- TylerE 8y ago
  Sure. Consider, say, Coca-Cola. The basic "dynamic ribbon" logo (https://www.coca-cola.co.uk/content/dam/journey/gb/en/hidden/History/Heritage/Non-Hero-article-images/Coca-Cola-Logo-1887.png https://www.coca-cola.co.uk/content/dam/journey/gb/en/hidden...) dates from 1886.
- oh_sigh 8y ago
  Notably the brand is for a chili and condiment company. In that field, recalling nostalgia and your grandma's recipes makes sense. But no one wants to use their grandma's old software
  - faitswulff 8y ago
    > But no one wants to use their grandma's old software Maybe that will change as the industry matures.
    - jjoonathan 8y ago
      emacs
  - maxsilver 8y ago
    > But no one wants to use their grandma's old software (quietly puts away my NES Classic Edition)
jamestimmins 8y ago
Is it just me or is the light-blue link color very hard to read against a white background?
scottrogers86 8y ago
Congrats -- you now look like every other company in the fintech space.
maliman33 8y ago
@charleyma, why does the company go with that vector art style that _every_ website has these days? It is no longer unique or recognizable. It looks cool, and management is probably going to be super happy. But that's not what a brand is about. It should be identifiable and recognizable. This does nothing of that.

40 points by charleyma 8y ago

Why do sites continue to use the hamburger menu??? (and also hide the menu if we don't decide to allocate 1200px of real estate to basically empty website!?) Such a bad UX for discoverability. Here's what I see: https://imgur.com/a/COfKBYM https://imgur.com/a/COfKBYM

pragone 8y ago
I'm confused - what's the problem with the hamburger menu? What would the alternative be on small screens?
- matchbok 8y ago
  It seems to trigger even on non-mobile devices. If I shrink my viewport to a normal width (900ish pixels) the entire site is basically unusable. :/
  - baddox 8y ago
    Most modern responsive design doesn't specifically target mobile vs. non-mobile devices, but rather simply the width of the browser window. In my experience a width of 900px is generally considered pretty low for a desktop browser, and toward the high end for tablets and large smartphone. Bootstrap, for instance, uses 992px as the low end of its "large" media query, which is intended for desktops.
  - mdorazio 8y ago
    900px is not normal - that's tiny by today's standards. The only plausible alternative at a width that small would be to shrink the size of the text in the menu, otherwise it simply won't fit. Doing that would be worse to me for usability than switching to the hamburger.
    - matchbok 8y ago
      Sorry I don't think you're correct here. There is a ton of wasted space here. https://imgur.com/a/COfKBYM https://imgur.com/a/COfKBYM Definitely room for an actual menu there. Either way, a hidden hamburger menu makes 0 sense on a desktop environment anyway, no matter how much space you have.
      - mdorazio 8y ago
        And I don't think you're correct. There are 5 menu items + log in + the API docs button on the main header. If you want all those to fit in a sub-standard width page, you're going to end up sacrificing readability in text. If you want to propose removing a menu item to make more space, that's an option, but just saying "I don't like the hamburger - they could fit the menu somehow" is not helpful.
        huebomont 8y ago
        What you do is fit the important stuff and hide the rest under a "more..." just because it ALL can't fit doesn't mean hiding everything is the only solution.
        mdorazio 8y ago
        What is "important" in this context? Resources and About? Do you just hide stuff under "More" from right to left as you run out of space? How many people are actually going to click or hover on "More" to find out what's under there? There's a reason design trends have been shifting toward hamburger menus for smaller layouts - it's the best design choice for usability and lack of confusion once people get used to what the hamburger icon means.
        huebomont 8y ago
        That's all stuff for the designer and content to determine. But if there's room, it's always better to show the user the choices they have than not.
- alehul 8y ago
  Would have to search to find the exact studies, but it's been found that a hamburger menu will lower engagement and result in shorter user sessions (particularly, the user will visit less pages). The intuitive answer as to why is that you're burying a very important navigation menu by making it an extra click away (and hidden from view by default). Anecdotal side note, but when I was working on a startup in some industry, we found that our largest competitor by an order of magnitude had a navigation bar at the bottom in their mobile app, while everyone else in the space used the hamburger menu. The experience made it seem like this is common knowledge at the higher levels of app design. Even Apple has come out and explicitly spoken against the hamburger menu as a design element for iOS apps, and instead recommends tab bars.
- liveoneggs 8y ago
  since I don't use facebook I didn't know you were supposed to click on them until I started seeing articles about how bad they were. It opened a whole new world of menus.
koube 8y ago
Don't know if it's just me, but the hamburger menu doesn't even work on chrome + macOS. I click it and nothing happens.
- graedus 8y ago
  Same with Chrome and Firefox in Win10. Even Chrome's device/touch emulation doesn't work. It does work on iOS Safari. Can't say I've seen such weird event handling in a while.
- frereubu 8y ago
  Same on macOS + Firefox
culot 8y ago
I do know that is the default for many popular Wordpress themes. The hamburger break-point is usually too generous. It looks like its just a poor use of spacing that leads to premature hamburgerization: https://i.imgur.com/kTid0y3.png https://i.imgur.com/kTid0y3.png

Artemis2 8y ago

I learned a new word today! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilloché https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilloché

teddyh 8y ago
See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knurling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knurling

faitswulff 8y ago

I saw an article about how a 21 year old brand logo (Lao Gan Ma 老干妈 chili sauce) became a fashion icon[0] for Chinese Fashion Week and wondered what the Western world would be like if companies didn't rebrand so often. The Lao Gan Ma logo certainly wouldn't have the same cachet if it was a 2 year old logo that looked nothing like the original[1]. Is it possible to make brands (or software) that's just "done?" [0]: http://www.sixthtone.com/news/1002903/face-of-chinese-chili-sauce-becomes-fashion-symbol-in-new-york http://www.sixthtone.com/news/1002903/face-of-chinese-chili-... [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/9ewvb7/firefox_logo_concept_by_mark_forge/ https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/9ewvb7/firefox_log...

TylerE 8y ago
Sure. Consider, say, Coca-Cola. The basic "dynamic ribbon" logo (https://www.coca-cola.co.uk/content/dam/journey/gb/en/hidden/History/Heritage/Non-Hero-article-images/Coca-Cola-Logo-1887.png https://www.coca-cola.co.uk/content/dam/journey/gb/en/hidden...) dates from 1886.
oh_sigh 8y ago
Notably the brand is for a chili and condiment company. In that field, recalling nostalgia and your grandma's recipes makes sense. But no one wants to use their grandma's old software
- faitswulff 8y ago
  > But no one wants to use their grandma's old software Maybe that will change as the industry matures.
  - jjoonathan 8y ago
    emacs
- maxsilver 8y ago
  > But no one wants to use their grandma's old software (quietly puts away my NES Classic Edition)

jamestimmins 8y ago

Is it just me or is the light-blue link color very hard to read against a white background?

scottrogers86 8y ago

Congrats -- you now look like every other company in the fintech space.

maliman33 8y ago

@charleyma, why does the company go with that vector art style that _every_ website has these days? It is no longer unique or recognizable. It looks cool, and management is probably going to be super happy. But that's not what a brand is about. It should be identifiable and recognizable. This does nothing of that.