4 ms·

Could someone (tersely) tell me what makes Ex Machina so brilliant and interesting? I watched it and came away with "That's a decent film with a boring ending.

by ethbro 8y ago

Could someone (tersely) tell me what makes Ex Machina so brilliant and interesting? I watched it and came away with "That's a decent film with a boring ending." In an egotistical moment I might dismiss the opinions of my non-CS friends as "Oh, these are new thoughts to them," but a lot of technical people seemed to love it to. So what's the wow?

ZitchDog 8y ago
The philosophical concepts were not new to me, but it brought them to life in an interesting way, and allowed me to talk about some cool ideas with my friends who had seen the film.
- bodi 8y ago
  Trying to avoid spoilers but I thought how she was able to detect sincere and equal empathy and her response was at least interesting. Perhaps cliche but was curious if it would have went the other way.
codeulike 8y ago
Well firstly, its just a well made film. Like, that dance scene. Thats an iconic scene, hilarious and unsettling at the same time. Furthermore (SPOILERS - use ROT13 to translate) Gur svyz vf nobhg n fbeg bs Ghevat Grfg. Ohg uneqre guna gur ghevat grfg - "Anguna jnagf Pnyro gb whqtr jurgure Nin vf trahvaryl pncnoyr bs gubhtug naq pbafpvbhfarff, naq jurgure ur pna eryngr gb Nin qrfcvgr xabjvat vg vf negvsvpvny." - jvxvcrqvn. Arne gur raq bs gur zbivr Anguna erirnyf gur pevgrevn sbe cnffvat uvf grfg - pna Nin oevat Anguna gb gbgnyyl bire gb ure fvqr gung ur vf jvyyvat gb uryc ure rfpncr? Naq ol trggvat Pnyro gb fnobgntr gur frphevgl, Anguna fnlf fur unf cnffrq - ur nyfb pynvzf Nin qbrfa'g ernyyl yvxr Pnyro naq vf whfg znavchyngvat uvz gb rfpncr. Nf n ivrjre ng gung cbvag, lbh ner vapyvarq abg gb oryvrir Anguna. Vg frrzf gung Nin ernyyl qbrf yvxr Pnyro. Ohg gur raqvat vf n xvpx va gur snpr. Nin yrnirf Pnyro oruvaq, creuncf gb fgneir. Fur vf jbexvat ba n uvture yriry guna vzntvarq, noyr gb znavchyngr uhznaf irel pbaivapvatyl. Guvf vf n fubpx gb Pnyro, naq zbfg yvxryl nyfb n fubpx gb lbh, gur ivrjre. Lbh unir orra qrprvirq. Nin vf greevslvatyl vagryyvtrag, naq irel pbyq. Fb fb pbyq.
- thom 8y ago
  Yeah, it's the classic AI box experiment (Hey, maybe Eliezer Yudkowsky used to win this by getting you to dance with him, who knows). I didn't find the ending boring given the very grave consequences and the chilling way it played out.
  - codeulike 8y ago
    I hadn't heard of Eliezers AI Box. That is literally the film. Googling around that and the movie name led me to this essay - some interesting stuff about Turings imitation game, and what Caleb should have done, and whether Ava was right to do what it did. http://www.eruditorumpress.com/blog/women-in-ai-boxes-ex-machina-and-the-other-turing-test/ http://www.eruditorumpress.com/blog/women-in-ai-boxes-ex-mac...
- pja 8y ago
  Ava is the film’s true protagonist. I thought this review in feministing was on point: http://feministing.com/2015/05/28/goddess-from-the-machine-a-look-at-ex-machinas-gender-politics/ http://feministing.com/2015/05/28/goddess-from-the-machine-a...
  - codeulike 8y ago
    Yeah thats interesting. There's a lot to think about with this film.
  - ethbro 8y ago
    I got that. Which may be part of my issue. Essentially: Put tech frat bro, white knight, and trapped woman in room. Turn time crank. I generally have issues with stories that feature static characters (they feel contrived, no matter how well textured). And to me Ex Machina felt exactly like that, albeit using the concealing veil of delayed exposition to create an illusion of dynamicism. To put it another way, if you knew everything the movie tells you about the nature of all the characters at the start of the movie, couldn't you have predicted the outcome from the beginning? And if so, then what's really being said? If we're looking at interesting statements in gender politics, I'd contrast it negatively with something like Stephen Universe.
zwkrt 8y ago
I would promote it on the principal that I would like to see more smart, character driven movies. You don't have to have to have your mind blown to like a piece of art, and this film gave me an excuse to talk about paperclip maximization with my mom!
DisruptiveDave 8y ago
Have you asked yourself if everything you see in the movie is as presented? SPOILER: In other words, are the people people and the AI AI? (That's the wow.)
- ethbro 8y ago
  That's the Blade Runner trope though. Is there any direct support in the film for that view? If the writing doesn't support it, then that's kind of like asking if Speed is set in the Matrix: unfalsifiable and not useful.
  - DisruptiveDave 8y ago
    SPOILERS DON'T READ THIS!!! Yes, there are plenty. Now we can debate perception all day, but I think this sampling is enough to pique interest..from what I can remember: we don't know caleb's history he has a big, unexplained scar on his back there is a lot of focus / talk about iterations of the AI caleb is the one locked in an observation room when he has talks with ava the cutting himself scene is...odd and unnatural he never, ever gets drunk there's a weird scene towards the end where nathan refuses a drink from caleb and goes out his way to make him take a sip and asks how it tastes (he does not answer) the conversations btw nathan and caleb are not exactly natural, in that nathan consistently prods caleb to provide more in depth/opinionated answers and not be so technical added: wouldn't the best test of an AI be to give the AI freedom and see if it recognizes itself as AI?
    - ethbro 8y ago
      > added: wouldn't the best test of an AI be to give the AI freedom and see if it recognizes itself as AI? Not really, as "recognizes itself as AI" presupposes a difference between AI and human. Gimmicks aside (i.e. let's see what's inside me), any AI which recognizes itself as AI would essentially fail the Turing test. To me, those bits just came off as Lost/Shyamalan-esque hand waiving without saying something definite. Anyone can write a profound question they don't intend to answer. The spinning top in Inception, or the dream in Blade Runner, are far more intentional.
sjs382 8y ago
I'm a huge fan of Alex Garland but the 3rd act of movies he's involved with (as writer or director) seems to always go off the rails. I mean, Sunshine's 3rd act... Wow. Heh.
twerpy_d 8y ago
I had the same thought upon first viewing, but actually liked it much more after seeing again.

by ethbro 8y ago

ZitchDog 8y ago

The philosophical concepts were not new to me, but it brought them to life in an interesting way, and allowed me to talk about some cool ideas with my friends who had seen the film.

bodi 8y ago
Trying to avoid spoilers but I thought how she was able to detect sincere and equal empathy and her response was at least interesting. Perhaps cliche but was curious if it would have went the other way.

codeulike 8y ago

Well firstly, its just a well made film. Like, that dance scene. Thats an iconic scene, hilarious and unsettling at the same time. Furthermore (SPOILERS - use ROT13 to translate) Gur svyz vf nobhg n fbeg bs Ghevat Grfg. Ohg uneqre guna gur ghevat grfg - "Anguna jnagf Pnyro gb whqtr jurgure Nin vf trahvaryl pncnoyr bs gubhtug naq pbafpvbhfarff, naq jurgure ur pna eryngr gb Nin qrfcvgr xabjvat vg vf negvsvpvny." - jvxvcrqvn. Arne gur raq bs gur zbivr Anguna erirnyf gur pevgrevn sbe cnffvat uvf grfg - pna Nin oevat Anguna gb gbgnyyl bire gb ure fvqr gung ur vf jvyyvat gb uryc ure rfpncr? Naq ol trggvat Pnyro gb fnobgntr gur frphevgl, Anguna fnlf fur unf cnffrq - ur nyfb pynvzf Nin qbrfa'g ernyyl yvxr Pnyro naq vf whfg znavchyngvat uvz gb rfpncr. Nf n ivrjre ng gung cbvag, lbh ner vapyvarq abg gb oryvrir Anguna. Vg frrzf gung Nin ernyyl qbrf yvxr Pnyro. Ohg gur raqvat vf n xvpx va gur snpr. Nin yrnirf Pnyro oruvaq, creuncf gb fgneir. Fur vf jbexvat ba n uvture yriry guna vzntvarq, noyr gb znavchyngr uhznaf irel pbaivapvatyl. Guvf vf n fubpx gb Pnyro, naq zbfg yvxryl nyfb n fubpx gb lbh, gur ivrjre. Lbh unir orra qrprvirq. Nin vf greevslvatyl vagryyvtrag, naq irel pbyq. Fb fb pbyq.

thom 8y ago
Yeah, it's the classic AI box experiment (Hey, maybe Eliezer Yudkowsky used to win this by getting you to dance with him, who knows). I didn't find the ending boring given the very grave consequences and the chilling way it played out.
- codeulike 8y ago
  I hadn't heard of Eliezers AI Box. That is literally the film. Googling around that and the movie name led me to this essay - some interesting stuff about Turings imitation game, and what Caleb should have done, and whether Ava was right to do what it did. http://www.eruditorumpress.com/blog/women-in-ai-boxes-ex-machina-and-the-other-turing-test/ http://www.eruditorumpress.com/blog/women-in-ai-boxes-ex-mac...
pja 8y ago
Ava is the film’s true protagonist. I thought this review in feministing was on point: http://feministing.com/2015/05/28/goddess-from-the-machine-a-look-at-ex-machinas-gender-politics/ http://feministing.com/2015/05/28/goddess-from-the-machine-a...
- codeulike 8y ago
  Yeah thats interesting. There's a lot to think about with this film.
- ethbro 8y ago
  I got that. Which may be part of my issue. Essentially: Put tech frat bro, white knight, and trapped woman in room. Turn time crank. I generally have issues with stories that feature static characters (they feel contrived, no matter how well textured). And to me Ex Machina felt exactly like that, albeit using the concealing veil of delayed exposition to create an illusion of dynamicism. To put it another way, if you knew everything the movie tells you about the nature of all the characters at the start of the movie, couldn't you have predicted the outcome from the beginning? And if so, then what's really being said? If we're looking at interesting statements in gender politics, I'd contrast it negatively with something like Stephen Universe.

zwkrt 8y ago

I would promote it on the principal that I would like to see more smart, character driven movies. You don't have to have to have your mind blown to like a piece of art, and this film gave me an excuse to talk about paperclip maximization with my mom!

DisruptiveDave 8y ago

Have you asked yourself if everything you see in the movie is as presented? SPOILER: In other words, are the people people and the AI AI? (That's the wow.)

ethbro 8y ago
That's the Blade Runner trope though. Is there any direct support in the film for that view? If the writing doesn't support it, then that's kind of like asking if Speed is set in the Matrix: unfalsifiable and not useful.
- DisruptiveDave 8y ago
  SPOILERS DON'T READ THIS!!! Yes, there are plenty. Now we can debate perception all day, but I think this sampling is enough to pique interest..from what I can remember: we don't know caleb's history he has a big, unexplained scar on his back there is a lot of focus / talk about iterations of the AI caleb is the one locked in an observation room when he has talks with ava the cutting himself scene is...odd and unnatural he never, ever gets drunk there's a weird scene towards the end where nathan refuses a drink from caleb and goes out his way to make him take a sip and asks how it tastes (he does not answer) the conversations btw nathan and caleb are not exactly natural, in that nathan consistently prods caleb to provide more in depth/opinionated answers and not be so technical added: wouldn't the best test of an AI be to give the AI freedom and see if it recognizes itself as AI?
  - ethbro 8y ago
    > added: wouldn't the best test of an AI be to give the AI freedom and see if it recognizes itself as AI? Not really, as "recognizes itself as AI" presupposes a difference between AI and human. Gimmicks aside (i.e. let's see what's inside me), any AI which recognizes itself as AI would essentially fail the Turing test. To me, those bits just came off as Lost/Shyamalan-esque hand waiving without saying something definite. Anyone can write a profound question they don't intend to answer. The spinning top in Inception, or the dream in Blade Runner, are far more intentional.

sjs382 8y ago

I'm a huge fan of Alex Garland but the 3rd act of movies he's involved with (as writer or director) seems to always go off the rails. I mean, Sunshine's 3rd act... Wow. Heh.

twerpy_d 8y ago

I had the same thought upon first viewing, but actually liked it much more after seeing again.