5 ms·

I don't have a single "most favorite" but I worked for someone a couple weeks ago who began by saying "I just want you to get the job done right and I don't car

by ken 8y ago

I don't have a single "most favorite" but I worked for someone a couple weeks ago who began by saying "I just want you to get the job done right and I don't care how long it takes you". I knew right away I was going to love it there. That's the way to my heart.

zeusk 8y ago
There has to be a middle ground somewhere, pursuing technical perfection for eternity will not make you money.
- examancer 8y ago
  I think most of us want our code to see the light of day. If given an actual problem to solve, we aren't going to toil away at tiny details forever. We want to see it run! A good manager knows this and will give you room to find that balance yourself, unless you have demonstrated you need help with that.
  - cpeterso 8y ago
    I read an interesting twist on perfectionism: try to the "perfect compromise". Quality has multiple dimensions and you can't optimize all of them perfectly. Instead, choose which dimension is actually most important for the current problem and prioritize it.
    - taneq 8y ago
      A few years ago I invented[1] the term 'acceptimal', meaning 'acceptably optimal'. It's not the absolute best solution, but it's a pragmatic compromise between time, cost, performance, and simplicity which performs acceptably close to optimally. [1] Or at least I've never heard anyone else use it who didn't get it from me.
- daenz 8y ago
  It only seems to work when the person doing the work has good judgement about what things need to be right and the manager trusts them. If there are communication and trust issues, then there will be the constant back and forth between "what makes us money" and "what needs to be fixed." IMO, good judgement about the things that need to be right enhances the ability to make money. Too often I see manager-type people disregard the technical grievances of a team as ambiguous/unimportant things, while at the same time wondering why nobody can deliver and get things done. There is very often a direct connection!
scarface74 8y ago
I would think that’s the worse kind of manager. One of a manager’s job is to manage resources. There are always trade offs between doing things “right” and delivering. If you look at the old Joel quadrant of smart / gets things done (delivers value to the business), someone who “doesn’t care how long it takes” runs the risk of gold plating features instead of delivering. A deadline is a great focusing mechanism. And no I’m not a manager.
- kerng 8y ago
  One big demotivating factor is forcing people to deliver mediocre stuff. That's the way to loose the best. Many folks are motivated by delivering high quality, higher even then the market wants/desires. No need to push or force them - just letting them build the best does a lot of good. There is a book called Peopleware, that discusses that aspect.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    It’s even more demotivating to not have a job to come to because you aren’t delivering value to your paying customers or you didn’t have a product that convinced your investors to keep pumping money into your business. There has to be a balance. The company can’t exist without both customers (either internal or external) and employees.
    - tremon 8y ago
      Speaking purely for myself here, but no, that's not as demotivating. Having to deliver crapware is demotivating, because you know that either the customer or yourself will get burnt by entirely preventable problems. Having to chase a new job is stressful, but not as demotivating since you know (or, have faith that) the stress is temporary.
  - diminoten 8y ago
    I don't believe this, but I am curious what your thoughts are (or others) on the questioning of the premise that this job (or any job) needs "the best".
anonytrary 8y ago
That sounds like my dream job, but I'd be afraid of the company folding eventually.
sonnyblarney 8y ago
I think you are in a very lucky situation, and that's probably not the manager's impetus, maybe it's something else. There are very, very few managers who are realistically in a position to be able to say something like that. There's a good chance you might be working for a nice guy / purist / engineer's manager ... but who might actually not be a very good manager at all. If 'getting it right no matter the cost' were a good company building philosophy, we'd all be doing it! 'Getting it good enough for the market to accept given a limited budget and timeframe' is basically how 99% of the world must operate. It's just reality. That's why being a manager or starting/owning/running a business is hard. Usually really hard.
teddyh 8y ago
The Tao Of Programming, Book 5, Maintenance (Geoffrey James, 1987): A manager asked a programmer how long it would take him to finish the program on which he was working. “It will be finished tomorrow,” the programmer promptly replied. “I think you are being unrealistic,” said the manager, “Truthfully, how long will it take?” The programmer thought for a moment. “I have some features that I wish to add. This will take at least two weeks,” he finally said. “Even that is too much to expect,” insisted the manager, “I will be satisfied if you simply tell me when the program is complete.” The programmer agreed to this. Several years later, the manager retired. On the way to his retirement luncheon, he discovered the programmer asleep at his terminal. He had been programming all night.

by ken 8y ago

zeusk 8y ago

There has to be a middle ground somewhere, pursuing technical perfection for eternity will not make you money.

examancer 8y ago
I think most of us want our code to see the light of day. If given an actual problem to solve, we aren't going to toil away at tiny details forever. We want to see it run! A good manager knows this and will give you room to find that balance yourself, unless you have demonstrated you need help with that.
- cpeterso 8y ago
  I read an interesting twist on perfectionism: try to the "perfect compromise". Quality has multiple dimensions and you can't optimize all of them perfectly. Instead, choose which dimension is actually most important for the current problem and prioritize it.
  - taneq 8y ago
    A few years ago I invented[1] the term 'acceptimal', meaning 'acceptably optimal'. It's not the absolute best solution, but it's a pragmatic compromise between time, cost, performance, and simplicity which performs acceptably close to optimally. [1] Or at least I've never heard anyone else use it who didn't get it from me.
daenz 8y ago
It only seems to work when the person doing the work has good judgement about what things need to be right and the manager trusts them. If there are communication and trust issues, then there will be the constant back and forth between "what makes us money" and "what needs to be fixed." IMO, good judgement about the things that need to be right enhances the ability to make money. Too often I see manager-type people disregard the technical grievances of a team as ambiguous/unimportant things, while at the same time wondering why nobody can deliver and get things done. There is very often a direct connection!

scarface74 8y ago

I would think that’s the worse kind of manager. One of a manager’s job is to manage resources. There are always trade offs between doing things “right” and delivering. If you look at the old Joel quadrant of smart / gets things done (delivers value to the business), someone who “doesn’t care how long it takes” runs the risk of gold plating features instead of delivering. A deadline is a great focusing mechanism. And no I’m not a manager.

kerng 8y ago
One big demotivating factor is forcing people to deliver mediocre stuff. That's the way to loose the best. Many folks are motivated by delivering high quality, higher even then the market wants/desires. No need to push or force them - just letting them build the best does a lot of good. There is a book called Peopleware, that discusses that aspect.
- scarface74 8y ago
  It’s even more demotivating to not have a job to come to because you aren’t delivering value to your paying customers or you didn’t have a product that convinced your investors to keep pumping money into your business. There has to be a balance. The company can’t exist without both customers (either internal or external) and employees.
  - tremon 8y ago
    Speaking purely for myself here, but no, that's not as demotivating. Having to deliver crapware is demotivating, because you know that either the customer or yourself will get burnt by entirely preventable problems. Having to chase a new job is stressful, but not as demotivating since you know (or, have faith that) the stress is temporary.
- diminoten 8y ago
  I don't believe this, but I am curious what your thoughts are (or others) on the questioning of the premise that this job (or any job) needs "the best".

anonytrary 8y ago

That sounds like my dream job, but I'd be afraid of the company folding eventually.

sonnyblarney 8y ago

I think you are in a very lucky situation, and that's probably not the manager's impetus, maybe it's something else. There are very, very few managers who are realistically in a position to be able to say something like that. There's a good chance you might be working for a nice guy / purist / engineer's manager ... but who might actually not be a very good manager at all. If 'getting it right no matter the cost' were a good company building philosophy, we'd all be doing it! 'Getting it good enough for the market to accept given a limited budget and timeframe' is basically how 99% of the world must operate. It's just reality. That's why being a manager or starting/owning/running a business is hard. Usually really hard.

teddyh 8y ago

The Tao Of Programming, Book 5, Maintenance (Geoffrey James, 1987): A manager asked a programmer how long it would take him to finish the program on which he was working. “It will be finished tomorrow,” the programmer promptly replied. “I think you are being unrealistic,” said the manager, “Truthfully, how long will it take?” The programmer thought for a moment. “I have some features that I wish to add. This will take at least two weeks,” he finally said. “Even that is too much to expect,” insisted the manager, “I will be satisfied if you simply tell me when the program is complete.” The programmer agreed to this. Several years later, the manager retired. On the way to his retirement luncheon, he discovered the programmer asleep at his terminal. He had been programming all night.