9 ms·

As I get older, every time I find myself cruising at 50mph in traffic on the freeway on my motorcycle, I ask myself how the fuck younger me thought this was an

As I get older, every time I find myself cruising at 50mph in traffic on the freeway on my motorcycle, I ask myself how the fuck younger me thought this was an acceptable speed at which to start lanesplitting. Was I insane? Nowadays I'll start around 40, more like 30, and never more than 10 over. It's a shame so many motorcyclists die young, before they get a chance to "grow into" some safety sense. I distinctly remember talking with my friends age 12 about how (apologies) "gay" helmets were on our bicycles. We'd speedbomb hills too, it was fun. I remember feeling no fear back then. I remember my parents telling me "you're an idiot for thinking you're invulnerable." Why do we think that way when we're young, that we're immune to damage? What changes? We experience more death firsthand? If I hadn't had to clean up car accidents and watch a friend lose her intelligence to a helmetless bicycle accident, would I still feel invulnerable? I wonder about this woman - did she do this because she lacked the fear? Or did she feel it, and all the positives of doing it overruled her fear? Maybe she was just confident enough in her safety measures to do it anyway?

sbr464 8y ago
You aren’t alone. Younger me is a scary person.
blihp 8y ago
When you're young and lucky you lack both the experience of bad things happening to you and others and, if you're healthy, you think 'well I've always felt pretty much the way I feel now and when I get hurt I heal pretty fast' so you don't think too much about it. Also, most of the people around you tend to be in the same state, though there were probably at least a few exceptions but they were so few that they're easy to overlook. Then you get older and experience aches and pains where there were none before, when you get hurt instead of shaking it off you either take longer to heal and/or need a trip to the doctor, maybe you deal with a nasty illness/injury or two, see people you know dealing with and/or taken out by nastier things. Throughout all this you start becoming your parents saying things like 'stop running around with that... you could put an eye out' (hell, by this time you probably met someone who did just that) I figure in a few more years I'll be driving 20mph in the fast lane with my blinkers on... after all, what's the rush? Hey kids, get off my lawn! ;-)
- macintux 8y ago
  > (hell, by this time you probably met someone who did just that) My young cousins were playing tug of war with a bungie cord. One let go and the other ended up with a damaged eyeball.
sbr464 8y ago
Here’s a tldr on the subject, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2396593/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2396593/
- craftyguy 8y ago
  > Here’s a tldr on the subject, That's the longest tldr I've ever seen.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
nickpsecurity 8y ago
An EMT in the family told me they call the ones without helmets "future, organ donors." Said they see too many of them that don't make it. I just try to stay away from anyone on a bike when I'm driving. I don't do it myself, though, cuz I was worried about potholes, deer, and so on. I figured I'd crash over something small I didn't see or avoid in time. My reflexes aren't that good. ;)
- dvdkhlng 8y ago
  I think people are overestimating the merit of normal bicycle helmets. I think the actual effect is something like this ([1]): > The most reliable estimates indicate that at speeds of up to 20 km/h helmets reduce the risk of head injury by 42%, the risk of brain injury by 53%, and the risk of facial injury by 17%, whereas they increase the risk of neck injury by 32%. These estimates are partly based on research carried out in countries like the United States and Australia, where standards for bicycle helmets are stricter than they are in Europe and can offer protection at higher impact speeds. In wikipedia [2] I find this quote: "This effect is statistically significant in older studies. New studies, summarised by a random-effects model of analysis, indicate only a statistically non-significant protective effect" And to the parents around here, make sure your kids know when to not wear a helmet (choking accidents [3]) [1] https://www.helmets.org/stats.htm#effectiveness https://www.helmets.org/stats.htm#effectiveness [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_helmet#Effectiveness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_helmet#Effectiveness [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_helmet#Accidental_hanging_by_helmet_straps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_helmet#Accidental_hang...
  - komali2 8y ago
    I wonder if the neck injury thing is just because a "lesser than" injury is actually getting reported? I haven't seen anything in the article about it, but for example iirc there was this hullabaloo about motorcycle helmet data indicating an increase in back injuries for helmet-wearers, until someone pointed out that dead-on-site riders would be reported as simply "dead," with their injuries unaccounted for.
    - 8y ago
gnulinux 8y ago
I was maybe 10 or younger and I was speedbombing downhill with my younger sister. We were fearless and very, very fast. Of course we weren't wearing any helmet or whatever. One time as we were racing, she was winning, she shifted her bike toward my direction and slowed down. I ran into her bike and flew out of my bike. Next thing I know I'm in the air, falling down towards the hill. When I finally hit the ground, I uncontrollably rolled downhill another maybe 10 meters. All my face and body was covered in blood and soil. My mom, seeing this incident from far away, ran for help. She told me, when I grew up, that when she was close enough to see me she was sure I was dead because of all the blood on the asphalt and what not. But thanks to the gods of probability, I didn't even break a bone. I don't understand how can human body can be so resilient that a 10 year old kid can survive such an accident without any damage other than his skin (and it wasn't permenant, I forgot about this event until now). I was stupid and I probably did that again and again, possibly even the next day. Now 15 years later, I bike everyday, but I bike very cautiously. I was lucky once, I don't wanna try my luck again.
- jacquesm 8y ago
  The big factor is that you simply weigh less.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
    Also, as far as I understand, growing bones impart a bit more flexiblity to the skeleton due to epiphyseal plates at either end of long bones. Or is this a myth?
    - MaxfordAndSons 8y ago
      I believe that's true, but I doubt it's really a factor in this phenomenon of kids surviving high speed crashes that would likely be fatal to adults. It's really just a matter of a less massive body generating (exponentially) less force on impact.
  - p1necone 8y ago
    The inverse square law is a powerful thing.
keyle 8y ago
Same. Been riding 15 years. My goal is always to be able to ride tomorrow.
felipemnoa 8y ago
>>Why do we think that way when we're young, that we're immune to damage? The answer to this question is simple: Ignorance It is the same ignorance that causes a toddler to put its hand in the fire without any fear. >>What changes? The experience of being burned is what changes. You are no longer ignorant. >>Maybe she was just confident enough in her safety measures to do it anyway? Or maybe she's just an adrenaline junkie. Also, doing something dangerous plenty of times with no consequences will reduce your fear.
accrual 8y ago
There's definitely a fearless aspect that comes with youth. I recall mine vividly and there were certainly times I gambled with my life. It's helped me grow as a person but I could never recommend such recklessness in hindsight. Perhaps some things can be learned but not taught.
zwily 8y ago
At least kids seem to be getting better about helmets. It’s really really rare that I ever see a kid not wearing one when mountain biking, at least where I am.
- ndnxhs 8y ago
  I have never seen someone at the mountain bike park without a helmet. That would be just insane. Also most of the people taking on the tough trails have full face helemets.
- ghaff 8y ago
  Helmets have become more common for a lot of activities. They used to be unheard of in skiing unless you were a racer and now are probably worn by most--especially kids. Of course, e-scooters and bike shares provide a counter-trend as they don't make it convenient to have a helmet.
  - Filligree 8y ago
    > They used to be unheard of in skiing unless you were a racer and now are probably worn by most--especially kids. What, seriously? What kind of skiing are you talking about? I've never once seen anyone wear a helmet for cross-country skiing, and I wouldn't think it's necessary anyway. For one thing it's usually walking pace, but also snow is soft.
    - ghaff 8y ago
      I thought it was obvious I was talking about downhill skiing. Of course people don't wear helmets for cross-country even for racing.
    - amalcon 8y ago
      Presumably grandparent means downhill. Twenty years ago, you basically couldn't buy an adult-sized helmet for alpine skiing even if you wanted to. These days, it's weird not to have one. I think the change was due to some high profile deaths from tree collisions in the late 90s.
blotter_paper 8y ago
> Why do we think that way when we're young, that we're immune to damage? What changes? I'm not saying that all of the "life experiences" answers are wrong, but I think there's more to it. For an organism to be successful it has to survive (to a point), but it also has to be efficient at doing physical tasks. I think we're naturally inclined to push our limits at a young age so that we know where those limits are, and we can more safely straddle them when we're older. Evolution could have made children cautious, and it did, to an extent. But there is a balance. A child who is too cautious never learns how to run safely, and an adult who doesn't know how to run safely can't chase a gazelle very well.
foobarbecue 8y ago
In my case it's not that I've gained fear, it's that self-preservation is now worth more, mostly because I've spent so much time filling this brain with things. I'm legitimately worth more now than I was in my daredevil days, so I expend more effort protecting myself.
- emodendroket 8y ago
  Well, one could easily make the opposite argument: the life of a young person is worth more because more life is left. Presumably that's why we find it more tragic when a young person dies than an old person.
PhasmaFelis 8y ago
> Why do we think that way when we're young, that we're immune to damage? What changes? We experience more death firsthand? If I hadn't had to clean up car accidents and watch a friend lose her intelligence to a helmetless bicycle accident, would I still feel invulnerable? There's a theory that, from an evolutionary standpoint, young men are wired to fearlessly fight and die to protect the rest of the community. If they survive long enough, they calm down and take on other roles, letting the new generation of kids take over as cannon fodder. Take with a grain of salt, obviously, because we're all a lot more complex than our evolutionary history, but it seems plausible.
hevi_jos 8y ago
>Why do we think that way when we're young, that we're immune to damage? Probably overprotection by parents. When I was a kid I was left alone with my friends with no parents supervision a lot. We did very risky things and risked our lives several times, but in controlled and normal environments like climbing trees and going to the mountain. When something went wrong you will get painful feedback like bruises. But you knew what your limits were. Quite interesting, those children that had their parents forbidding them to go with us actually had traumatic experiences later in life, once they were free from their parents. They will buy a motorcycle or car, take risks and die or almost die. It was like they lacked the experience we had and replicated it, but with machines in non humane environments. Instead of bruises they will crash a very expensive car.
- hfdgiutdryg 8y ago
  I took risks as a kid and then went out and crashed cars and motorcycles as an adult. I didn't learn anything about motorcycle dynamics from falling out of trees or face-planting off shoddy bicycle ramps.
oblio 8y ago
https://mentalhealthdaily.com/2015/02/18/at-what-age-is-the-brain-fully-developed/ https://mentalhealthdaily.com/2015/02/18/at-what-age-is-the-... TL;DR: Human brains are fully formed after 25 years. This means that you make decisions differently before 25 and after 25.
- bitexploder 8y ago
  Not sure why you were down voted. The risk taking mechanisms in our brains aren’t fully developed until around that age. I thought this was reasonably well understood
restalis 8y ago
"Why do we think that way when we're young, that we're immune to damage? What changes?" I see you've received a lot of answers already, but not an explanation (worthy by my standards). Here's my stab on it: 1. Remember how everyone got to ride a bike in the first place. It looked dangerous, yet we had to get over our fear AND try to suppress it consistently long after the point of riding and not falling any more. And that kind of fear suppression exercise was necessary again and again all over our childhood. It's no wonder that with so much repetition it grew to become part of our character, at least for a while, at least until the voices that once encouraged us to overcome our fears went silent. 2. The level of responsibility we bear and the awareness of it, including the responsibility for ourselves, especially enough to feel it in our choices, grows only with time. As younglings, we care less about "serious and boring" (i.e. "act responsible") and more about "fun and exciting" and weight our decisions accordingly.
sosuke 8y ago
My current theory on "why do we think that way when we're young" is a disconnection in logic between the older perspective and younger perspective. You don't think you're invulnerable when you're young you simply just don't think about what happens next. When your brain matures and you get older you realize you're going to be around a much longer time than you ever imagined. Your pre-frontal cortex gets a stronger voice and says "watch out you'll die in a second doing that!" An adults perspective is they young think they will never get hurt. A youths perspective never thinks about getting hurt in the first place.
harshulpandav 8y ago
I have been experiencing the same. A few factors I can think of. Exposure -- As kids, we aren't exposed to consequences of accidents, blood, etc. So because we have 'seen' less of it, we believe it cannot happen to us. Responsibilities -- I believe the 'responsibility' factor kicks in as we age. When we are kids, we are for ourselves so we end up taking more risks. As we get older, get married, have kids, watch our parents getting older, we start caring more for security as life seems to be important because of our dependents. We are adults for majority part of our lifetime so as we grow older we only become habituated to remain careful about our life.
ScottBurson 8y ago
> Why do we think that way when we're young, that we're immune to damage? What changes? We've evolved this way — not just humans, but mammals in general, and probably other species too. Risk-taking when young is adaptive for the community, if not always for the individual. If no one ever hunts in the place where a tiger was once seen, how will the tribe ever find out that the tiger has moved on?

sbr464 8y ago

You aren’t alone. Younger me is a scary person.

blihp 8y ago

When you're young and lucky you lack both the experience of bad things happening to you and others and, if you're healthy, you think 'well I've always felt pretty much the way I feel now and when I get hurt I heal pretty fast' so you don't think too much about it. Also, most of the people around you tend to be in the same state, though there were probably at least a few exceptions but they were so few that they're easy to overlook. Then you get older and experience aches and pains where there were none before, when you get hurt instead of shaking it off you either take longer to heal and/or need a trip to the doctor, maybe you deal with a nasty illness/injury or two, see people you know dealing with and/or taken out by nastier things. Throughout all this you start becoming your parents saying things like 'stop running around with that... you could put an eye out' (hell, by this time you probably met someone who did just that) I figure in a few more years I'll be driving 20mph in the fast lane with my blinkers on... after all, what's the rush? Hey kids, get off my lawn! ;-)

macintux 8y ago
> (hell, by this time you probably met someone who did just that) My young cousins were playing tug of war with a bungie cord. One let go and the other ended up with a damaged eyeball.

sbr464 8y ago

Here’s a tldr on the subject, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2396593/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2396593/

craftyguy 8y ago
> Here’s a tldr on the subject, That's the longest tldr I've ever seen.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

nickpsecurity 8y ago

An EMT in the family told me they call the ones without helmets "future, organ donors." Said they see too many of them that don't make it. I just try to stay away from anyone on a bike when I'm driving. I don't do it myself, though, cuz I was worried about potholes, deer, and so on. I figured I'd crash over something small I didn't see or avoid in time. My reflexes aren't that good. ;)

dvdkhlng 8y ago
I think people are overestimating the merit of normal bicycle helmets. I think the actual effect is something like this ([1]): > The most reliable estimates indicate that at speeds of up to 20 km/h helmets reduce the risk of head injury by 42%, the risk of brain injury by 53%, and the risk of facial injury by 17%, whereas they increase the risk of neck injury by 32%. These estimates are partly based on research carried out in countries like the United States and Australia, where standards for bicycle helmets are stricter than they are in Europe and can offer protection at higher impact speeds. In wikipedia [2] I find this quote: "This effect is statistically significant in older studies. New studies, summarised by a random-effects model of analysis, indicate only a statistically non-significant protective effect" And to the parents around here, make sure your kids know when to not wear a helmet (choking accidents [3]) [1] https://www.helmets.org/stats.htm#effectiveness https://www.helmets.org/stats.htm#effectiveness [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_helmet#Effectiveness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_helmet#Effectiveness [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_helmet#Accidental_hanging_by_helmet_straps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_helmet#Accidental_hang...
- komali2 8y ago
  I wonder if the neck injury thing is just because a "lesser than" injury is actually getting reported? I haven't seen anything in the article about it, but for example iirc there was this hullabaloo about motorcycle helmet data indicating an increase in back injuries for helmet-wearers, until someone pointed out that dead-on-site riders would be reported as simply "dead," with their injuries unaccounted for.
  - 8y ago

gnulinux 8y ago

I was maybe 10 or younger and I was speedbombing downhill with my younger sister. We were fearless and very, very fast. Of course we weren't wearing any helmet or whatever. One time as we were racing, she was winning, she shifted her bike toward my direction and slowed down. I ran into her bike and flew out of my bike. Next thing I know I'm in the air, falling down towards the hill. When I finally hit the ground, I uncontrollably rolled downhill another maybe 10 meters. All my face and body was covered in blood and soil. My mom, seeing this incident from far away, ran for help. She told me, when I grew up, that when she was close enough to see me she was sure I was dead because of all the blood on the asphalt and what not. But thanks to the gods of probability, I didn't even break a bone. I don't understand how can human body can be so resilient that a 10 year old kid can survive such an accident without any damage other than his skin (and it wasn't permenant, I forgot about this event until now). I was stupid and I probably did that again and again, possibly even the next day. Now 15 years later, I bike everyday, but I bike very cautiously. I was lucky once, I don't wanna try my luck again.

jacquesm 8y ago
The big factor is that you simply weigh less.
- TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
  Also, as far as I understand, growing bones impart a bit more flexiblity to the skeleton due to epiphyseal plates at either end of long bones. Or is this a myth?
  - MaxfordAndSons 8y ago
    I believe that's true, but I doubt it's really a factor in this phenomenon of kids surviving high speed crashes that would likely be fatal to adults. It's really just a matter of a less massive body generating (exponentially) less force on impact.
- p1necone 8y ago
  The inverse square law is a powerful thing.

keyle 8y ago

Same. Been riding 15 years. My goal is always to be able to ride tomorrow.

felipemnoa 8y ago

>>Why do we think that way when we're young, that we're immune to damage? The answer to this question is simple: Ignorance It is the same ignorance that causes a toddler to put its hand in the fire without any fear. >>What changes? The experience of being burned is what changes. You are no longer ignorant. >>Maybe she was just confident enough in her safety measures to do it anyway? Or maybe she's just an adrenaline junkie. Also, doing something dangerous plenty of times with no consequences will reduce your fear.

accrual 8y ago

There's definitely a fearless aspect that comes with youth. I recall mine vividly and there were certainly times I gambled with my life. It's helped me grow as a person but I could never recommend such recklessness in hindsight. Perhaps some things can be learned but not taught.

zwily 8y ago

At least kids seem to be getting better about helmets. It’s really really rare that I ever see a kid not wearing one when mountain biking, at least where I am.

ndnxhs 8y ago
I have never seen someone at the mountain bike park without a helmet. That would be just insane. Also most of the people taking on the tough trails have full face helemets.
ghaff 8y ago
Helmets have become more common for a lot of activities. They used to be unheard of in skiing unless you were a racer and now are probably worn by most--especially kids. Of course, e-scooters and bike shares provide a counter-trend as they don't make it convenient to have a helmet.
- Filligree 8y ago
  > They used to be unheard of in skiing unless you were a racer and now are probably worn by most--especially kids. What, seriously? What kind of skiing are you talking about? I've never once seen anyone wear a helmet for cross-country skiing, and I wouldn't think it's necessary anyway. For one thing it's usually walking pace, but also snow is soft.
  - ghaff 8y ago
    I thought it was obvious I was talking about downhill skiing. Of course people don't wear helmets for cross-country even for racing.
  - amalcon 8y ago
    Presumably grandparent means downhill. Twenty years ago, you basically couldn't buy an adult-sized helmet for alpine skiing even if you wanted to. These days, it's weird not to have one. I think the change was due to some high profile deaths from tree collisions in the late 90s.

blotter_paper 8y ago

> Why do we think that way when we're young, that we're immune to damage? What changes? I'm not saying that all of the "life experiences" answers are wrong, but I think there's more to it. For an organism to be successful it has to survive (to a point), but it also has to be efficient at doing physical tasks. I think we're naturally inclined to push our limits at a young age so that we know where those limits are, and we can more safely straddle them when we're older. Evolution could have made children cautious, and it did, to an extent. But there is a balance. A child who is too cautious never learns how to run safely, and an adult who doesn't know how to run safely can't chase a gazelle very well.

foobarbecue 8y ago

In my case it's not that I've gained fear, it's that self-preservation is now worth more, mostly because I've spent so much time filling this brain with things. I'm legitimately worth more now than I was in my daredevil days, so I expend more effort protecting myself.

emodendroket 8y ago
Well, one could easily make the opposite argument: the life of a young person is worth more because more life is left. Presumably that's why we find it more tragic when a young person dies than an old person.

PhasmaFelis 8y ago

> Why do we think that way when we're young, that we're immune to damage? What changes? We experience more death firsthand? If I hadn't had to clean up car accidents and watch a friend lose her intelligence to a helmetless bicycle accident, would I still feel invulnerable? There's a theory that, from an evolutionary standpoint, young men are wired to fearlessly fight and die to protect the rest of the community. If they survive long enough, they calm down and take on other roles, letting the new generation of kids take over as cannon fodder. Take with a grain of salt, obviously, because we're all a lot more complex than our evolutionary history, but it seems plausible.

hevi_jos 8y ago

>Why do we think that way when we're young, that we're immune to damage? Probably overprotection by parents. When I was a kid I was left alone with my friends with no parents supervision a lot. We did very risky things and risked our lives several times, but in controlled and normal environments like climbing trees and going to the mountain. When something went wrong you will get painful feedback like bruises. But you knew what your limits were. Quite interesting, those children that had their parents forbidding them to go with us actually had traumatic experiences later in life, once they were free from their parents. They will buy a motorcycle or car, take risks and die or almost die. It was like they lacked the experience we had and replicated it, but with machines in non humane environments. Instead of bruises they will crash a very expensive car.

hfdgiutdryg 8y ago
I took risks as a kid and then went out and crashed cars and motorcycles as an adult. I didn't learn anything about motorcycle dynamics from falling out of trees or face-planting off shoddy bicycle ramps.

oblio 8y ago

https://mentalhealthdaily.com/2015/02/18/at-what-age-is-the-brain-fully-developed/ https://mentalhealthdaily.com/2015/02/18/at-what-age-is-the-... TL;DR: Human brains are fully formed after 25 years. This means that you make decisions differently before 25 and after 25.

bitexploder 8y ago
Not sure why you were down voted. The risk taking mechanisms in our brains aren’t fully developed until around that age. I thought this was reasonably well understood

restalis 8y ago

"Why do we think that way when we're young, that we're immune to damage? What changes?" I see you've received a lot of answers already, but not an explanation (worthy by my standards). Here's my stab on it: 1. Remember how everyone got to ride a bike in the first place. It looked dangerous, yet we had to get over our fear AND try to suppress it consistently long after the point of riding and not falling any more. And that kind of fear suppression exercise was necessary again and again all over our childhood. It's no wonder that with so much repetition it grew to become part of our character, at least for a while, at least until the voices that once encouraged us to overcome our fears went silent. 2. The level of responsibility we bear and the awareness of it, including the responsibility for ourselves, especially enough to feel it in our choices, grows only with time. As younglings, we care less about "serious and boring" (i.e. "act responsible") and more about "fun and exciting" and weight our decisions accordingly.

sosuke 8y ago

My current theory on "why do we think that way when we're young" is a disconnection in logic between the older perspective and younger perspective. You don't think you're invulnerable when you're young you simply just don't think about what happens next. When your brain matures and you get older you realize you're going to be around a much longer time than you ever imagined. Your pre-frontal cortex gets a stronger voice and says "watch out you'll die in a second doing that!" An adults perspective is they young think they will never get hurt. A youths perspective never thinks about getting hurt in the first place.

harshulpandav 8y ago

I have been experiencing the same. A few factors I can think of. Exposure -- As kids, we aren't exposed to consequences of accidents, blood, etc. So because we have 'seen' less of it, we believe it cannot happen to us. Responsibilities -- I believe the 'responsibility' factor kicks in as we age. When we are kids, we are for ourselves so we end up taking more risks. As we get older, get married, have kids, watch our parents getting older, we start caring more for security as life seems to be important because of our dependents. We are adults for majority part of our lifetime so as we grow older we only become habituated to remain careful about our life.

ScottBurson 8y ago

> Why do we think that way when we're young, that we're immune to damage? What changes? We've evolved this way — not just humans, but mammals in general, and probably other species too. Risk-taking when young is adaptive for the community, if not always for the individual. If no one ever hunts in the place where a tiger was once seen, how will the tribe ever find out that the tiger has moved on?