6 ms·

My sense is the general argument goes: if you, as a member of the dominant race/class do something (adopt a style of dress, way of wearing your hair, style of m

My sense is the general argument goes: if you, as a member of the dominant race/class do something (adopt a style of dress, way of wearing your hair, style of music, etc.) which, when it is done by its originators leads to discrimination against them (for example people of African descent wearing their hair in dreads) but becomes cool and even profitable for you (think Elvis playing R&B), that's appropriation. I agree it's tricky because I don't think we want to advance essentialist arguments in general, but the focus is more on the unfairness than the "only X can do Y".

NickBusey 8y ago
You seem to be implying that white people with dreadlocks are somehow committing cultural appropriation. I would refer you to European history to find several examples of Europeans with dreadlocks. https://www.reddit.com/r/Norse/comments/1f3yif/is_there_good_historical_evidence_of_vikings/cdgn3qi/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Norse/comments/1f3yif/is_there_good... Otherwise I agree with your overall perspective.
- blacksmith_tb 8y ago
  It's a very common argument, so I can hardly claim it as my own, but a quick search on DDG or your favorite alternative will turn up thousands of hits[0]. Clearly it is true that human beings all over the world have braided/matted their hair for a very long time, but that doesn't seem to me to render arguments about its present-day significance moot, given that many students seem to be expelled for wearing them[1]. Similar results for dread-wearers being fired[2], again, nearly all of whom seem to be people of color. 0: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=dreadlocks+cultural+appropriation https://duckduckgo.com/?q=dreadlocks+cultural+appropriation 1: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=dreadlocks+expelled https://duckduckgo.com/?q=dreadlocks+expelled 2: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=dreadlocks+fired https://duckduckgo.com/?q=dreadlocks+fired
  - zaarn 8y ago
    I don't think a duckduckgo query is a fairly representative study of dreadlocks in cultural significance. A search engine will also turn up thousands of hits for "do vaccines cause autism", lots of which will say "yes".
    - InitialLastName 8y ago
      > A search engine will also turn up thousands of hits for "do vaccines cause autism", lots of which will say "yes". The fear that vaccines cause autism is culturally significant though. It's so culturally significant that it's causing real damage to society here and now.
      - zaarn 8y ago
        Yes but search engine results give you no validity or truth value of any statement. Quite the opposite really.
  - mvanvoorden 8y ago
    As a white person with dreads, I was pretty surprised I got hired at the place I'm working now. IT may be an exception, though.
whatshisface 8y ago
If the majority starts doing something then they'll stop discriminating against everybody else for doing it, so that sounds like a net positive. Cultural appropriation is a good thing because it dissolves the boundary of unfamiliarity.
- jrs95 8y ago
  But then there's one less thing for me to complain about to feel important and have my imagined moral superiority validated!
- drak0n1c 8y ago
  If formalwear of the future is to consist of multiple popular styles, and not just the western suit, then we shouldn't discourage people from trying clothing from other cultures.
LocalH 8y ago
That's not how it works in practice, however. As of late, most of the cries of "cultural appropration" have come from people outside of the "appropriated" group, white-knighting for them, often in opposition to those actually part of the group. It reeks more of siloing than anything. Certain people want everyone grouped up into nice little packages that we can't step outside of, and they've co-opted the most vocal (and often times extreme) advocates of social justice to do so.
oh_sigh 8y ago
While I would disagree with the specific example of dreads you provided(for reasons the other replier mentioned), I think you have provided the most charitable explanation of cultural appropriation. However, most of the time when I hear the phrase is around halloween, when a 5 year old girl who wants to be Mulan (or her parents) are accused of cultural appropriation.

NickBusey 8y ago

You seem to be implying that white people with dreadlocks are somehow committing cultural appropriation. I would refer you to European history to find several examples of Europeans with dreadlocks. https://www.reddit.com/r/Norse/comments/1f3yif/is_there_good_historical_evidence_of_vikings/cdgn3qi/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Norse/comments/1f3yif/is_there_good... Otherwise I agree with your overall perspective.

blacksmith_tb 8y ago
It's a very common argument, so I can hardly claim it as my own, but a quick search on DDG or your favorite alternative will turn up thousands of hits[0]. Clearly it is true that human beings all over the world have braided/matted their hair for a very long time, but that doesn't seem to me to render arguments about its present-day significance moot, given that many students seem to be expelled for wearing them[1]. Similar results for dread-wearers being fired[2], again, nearly all of whom seem to be people of color. 0: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=dreadlocks+cultural+appropriation https://duckduckgo.com/?q=dreadlocks+cultural+appropriation 1: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=dreadlocks+expelled https://duckduckgo.com/?q=dreadlocks+expelled 2: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=dreadlocks+fired https://duckduckgo.com/?q=dreadlocks+fired
- zaarn 8y ago
  I don't think a duckduckgo query is a fairly representative study of dreadlocks in cultural significance. A search engine will also turn up thousands of hits for "do vaccines cause autism", lots of which will say "yes".
  - InitialLastName 8y ago
    > A search engine will also turn up thousands of hits for "do vaccines cause autism", lots of which will say "yes". The fear that vaccines cause autism is culturally significant though. It's so culturally significant that it's causing real damage to society here and now.
    - zaarn 8y ago
      Yes but search engine results give you no validity or truth value of any statement. Quite the opposite really.
- mvanvoorden 8y ago
  As a white person with dreads, I was pretty surprised I got hired at the place I'm working now. IT may be an exception, though.

whatshisface 8y ago

If the majority starts doing something then they'll stop discriminating against everybody else for doing it, so that sounds like a net positive. Cultural appropriation is a good thing because it dissolves the boundary of unfamiliarity.

jrs95 8y ago
But then there's one less thing for me to complain about to feel important and have my imagined moral superiority validated!
drak0n1c 8y ago
If formalwear of the future is to consist of multiple popular styles, and not just the western suit, then we shouldn't discourage people from trying clothing from other cultures.

LocalH 8y ago

That's not how it works in practice, however. As of late, most of the cries of "cultural appropration" have come from people outside of the "appropriated" group, white-knighting for them, often in opposition to those actually part of the group. It reeks more of siloing than anything. Certain people want everyone grouped up into nice little packages that we can't step outside of, and they've co-opted the most vocal (and often times extreme) advocates of social justice to do so.

oh_sigh 8y ago

While I would disagree with the specific example of dreads you provided(for reasons the other replier mentioned), I think you have provided the most charitable explanation of cultural appropriation. However, most of the time when I hear the phrase is around halloween, when a 5 year old girl who wants to be Mulan (or her parents) are accused of cultural appropriation.