7 ms·

My comment is not about ho'oponopono, it's about cultural appropriation, which is mentioned in the article but probably wasn't why the submitter found this stor

• paulddraper 8y ago
  It's absurd. It's the idea that ideas/customs/intentions "belong" to members of a culture, and that constitutes a justifiable monopoly.
• blacksmith_tb 8y ago
  My sense is the general argument goes: if you, as a member of the dominant race/class do something (adopt a style of dress, way of wearing your hair, style of music, etc.) which, when it is done by its originators leads to discrimination against them (for example people of African descent wearing their hair in dreads) but becomes cool and even profitable for you (think Elvis playing R&B), that's appropriation. I agree it's tricky because I don't think we want to advance essentialist arguments in general, but the focus is more on the unfairness than the "only X can do Y".
  • NickBusey 8y ago
    You seem to be implying that white people with dreadlocks are somehow committing cultural appropriation. I would refer you to European history to find several examples of Europeans with dreadlocks. https://www.reddit.com/r/Norse/comments/1f3yif/is_there_good_historical_evidence_of_vikings/cdgn3qi/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Norse/comments/1f3yif/is_there_good... Otherwise I agree with your overall perspective.
    • blacksmith_tb 8y ago
      It's a very common argument, so I can hardly claim it as my own, but a quick search on DDG or your favorite alternative will turn up thousands of hits[0]. Clearly it is true that human beings all over the world have braided/matted their hair for a very long time, but that doesn't seem to me to render arguments about its present-day significance moot, given that many students seem to be expelled for wearing them[1]. Similar results for dread-wearers being fired[2], again, nearly all of whom seem to be people of color. 0: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=dreadlocks+cultural+appropriation https://duckduckgo.com/?q=dreadlocks+cultural+appropriation 1: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=dreadlocks+expelled https://duckduckgo.com/?q=dreadlocks+expelled 2: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=dreadlocks+fired https://duckduckgo.com/?q=dreadlocks+fired
      • zaarn 8y ago
        I don't think a duckduckgo query is a fairly representative study of dreadlocks in cultural significance. A search engine will also turn up thousands of hits for "do vaccines cause autism", lots of which will say "yes".
        • InitialLastName 8y ago
          > A search engine will also turn up thousands of hits for "do vaccines cause autism", lots of which will say "yes". The fear that vaccines cause autism is culturally significant though. It's so culturally significant that it's causing real damage to society here and now.
          • zaarn 8y ago
            Yes but search engine results give you no validity or truth value of any statement. Quite the opposite really.
      • mvanvoorden 8y ago
        As a white person with dreads, I was pretty surprised I got hired at the place I'm working now. IT may be an exception, though.
  • whatshisface 8y ago
    If the majority starts doing something then they'll stop discriminating against everybody else for doing it, so that sounds like a net positive. Cultural appropriation is a good thing because it dissolves the boundary of unfamiliarity.
    • jrs95 8y ago
      But then there's one less thing for me to complain about to feel important and have my imagined moral superiority validated!
    • drak0n1c 8y ago
      If formalwear of the future is to consist of multiple popular styles, and not just the western suit, then we shouldn't discourage people from trying clothing from other cultures.
  • LocalH 8y ago
    That's not how it works in practice, however. As of late, most of the cries of "cultural appropration" have come from people outside of the "appropriated" group, white-knighting for them, often in opposition to those actually part of the group. It reeks more of siloing than anything. Certain people want everyone grouped up into nice little packages that we can't step outside of, and they've co-opted the most vocal (and often times extreme) advocates of social justice to do so.
  • oh_sigh 8y ago
    While I would disagree with the specific example of dreads you provided(for reasons the other replier mentioned), I think you have provided the most charitable explanation of cultural appropriation. However, most of the time when I hear the phrase is around halloween, when a 5 year old girl who wants to be Mulan (or her parents) are accused of cultural appropriation.
• lutorm 8y ago
  "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness." Cultures have appropriated each other since the dawn of humanity. I understand how some can feel irritated that "their" concepts, whatever they are, have been "stolen" and stripped of their essence by others, but what's the alternative? It's not like the other cultures are forcing the originators to change theirs (or, they might, but that's not cultural appropriation) so it kind of feels like the same fallacy as claiming something was stolen from you if someone made a copy of something you own. Your culture is your own, no one else can debase that, only your own feelings can. It's the Stoic saying of "it is not outside events that affect us, but our opinions about them."
  • setr 8y ago
    I think the only time its fair to complain about it is when they’re doing it wrong, and particularly when they’re smug about it Like yoga But ofc its annoying when people do that for any subject, even something borne to their own cultures Like smug vegans
• groby_b 8y ago
  One big problem with appropriation occurs when the native culture has been forcefully damaged via colonization. Many people in the minority have only tenuous connections to their culture, because it deliberately wasn't taught. If, in that situation, the dominant culture appropriates (and muddies) a concept, it becomes very hard to discern what items in your culture even mean. This element of power imbalance or colonisation is what makes cultural appropriation harmful. It's also, at least the way I see it, what makes it appropriation - otherwise it's an exchange, and that's vital for cultures to grow. So what you defend when you protest cultural appropriation is specifically the transfer with an existing power imbalance. It's not "what you're born into defines you", but "people have already taken so much, let us keep what little we have"
  • paulddraper 8y ago
    > "people have already taken so much, let us keep what little we have" To clarify: Does "keep what little we have" mean "let me practice this custom"? Or does "keep what little we have" mean "let me practice this custom, but no one else"?
    • groby_b 8y ago
      It means "do not water down the meaning of this custom". If you manage to practice it exactly according to meaning, I don't think there'd be a large debate. But when you change meaning, you're exercising more of the power you already have over the minority. You're trampling over them to satisfy your own needs. (Which is pretty much colonialism in a nutshell)
      • paulddraper 8y ago
        > "do not water down the meaning of this custom" I don't believe, for example, your practice of Protestantosm in any way affects or "waters down" my practice of Catholicism. I understand this is a historically popular belief and many people still hold it. I personally do not.
        • 8y ago
• InclinedPlane 8y ago
  There are a couple important things to understand here. One of the most important is that there is a different between cultural interchange and cultural appropriation, but more on that later. Another important thing to understand is that context matters. There's a tendency to believe that behaviors divorced of context should have an intrinsic morality or be associated with other intrinsic qualities such as whether the behaviors should or should not be engaged in, whether they help or hurt people, etc. But this is a fantasy, and one born of privilege as well (the privilege to ignore the oppressed, ignore context, etc.) We cannot ignore the context of centuries of exploitative and racist colonization and empire. A straightforward classic example is the swastika, an ancient religious symbol that has been forever tainted due to history. We cannot pretend that we live in a world where everyone is on an equal playing field and where all of the crimes and iniquities of colonialism and empire have been erased and smoothed away. For that reason those who belong to cultures on the higher end of the privilege spectrum need to tread much more carefully when they "borrow" and "explore" elements from other cultures. Because the pre-existing power imbalances at play can cause cultural exchanges to magnify the power imbalances. For example, someone from a wealthy culture can more easily market and merchandise cultural elements from a poorer culture, funneling money to themselves by selling the culture of others. Another thing that's worth pointing out here is that a legacy of trauma and tragedy can preclude even otherwise benign or even beneficial activities from having benign or beneficial effects. Bad acts hurt people, they hurt relationships, they hurt societies. Think about someone with PTSD who has a hard time accepting love from others. The act itself (expression of compassion from a friend, for example) may be perfectly benign in the abstract, but within a context of surviving trauma it may even have a harmful effect. People coming from a background of privilege may be unfamiliar with the notion of having things in their life that have been ruined by actions of previous generations creating ongoing systemic problems, but it is nevertheless a very real phenomenon that billions of people are familiar with. Yes, it's a bit tragic that we have to be more careful with cultural interchange than we really ought to be but that tragedy has been imposed by a legacy that has included not just exploitation, theft, and slavery but also genocide. So tread lightly and thoughtfully. Now, as to cultural appreciation, the natural (and beneficial) aspect of cultural "borrowing" and mixing vs. cultural appropriation. There is a difference and it is possible to navigate cultural exchange without falling into the trap of appropriation. For one, ask yourself whether there is anything monetary going on, are you packaging up cultural works to sell outside of that culture? Are you financially benefiting from appealing to interest in a culture that is not your own? That's more likely to be appropriation. Is your "borrowing" or enjoyment of a culture heartfelt, authentic, and respectful? That's more likely to be simple cultural appreciation and interchange. Is your representation of aspects of a culture a caricature, does it draw on narratives of "exoticism" or "savagery"? That's likely to be appropriation. Does it encourage people to find out more about the culture in question, does it seem like a celebration of the culture? That's less likely to be appropriation. And so on. There's no rule book, all of this requires understanding why cultural appropriation is problematic, it requires understanding the history at play and it requires being thoughtful and understanding when exploring other cultures. A simple first order test is just to consider whether or not there is a power or wealth imbalance between the cultures in question and whether or not the particular activity amplifies or enforces that imbalance or not.
• zaarn 8y ago
  In an increasingly globalised world, the boundaries between cultures will blur. Cultural appropriation, to me, the impression that the wider world takes something from them, their customs, appearance or whatever else. I think the more accurate description would be that the wider world simply mixes their own customs with others, integrating the new ones, adopting or changing them. There are plenty of examples where a culture adopts and integrates something from a minority culture (Döner Kebap in Germany for example) and I don't think it's ultimately harmful. Ultimately, I would also agree that it's somewhat of a familiar concept to nationalism but with race or culture (though racism and nationalism have rather different meanings so I can't reuse racism in the same context I guess, cultural-nationalism maybe?) and maybe even other human concepts (I can totally imagine at some point people will yell about cultural appropriation from Tumblr or Twitter communities :) )