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Why is it needed at all? We have HTML, we have an agreed upon governance for it. Page load speeds are, frankly, none of Google's business and click jacking is

Why is it needed at all? We have HTML, we have an agreed upon governance for it. Page load speeds are, frankly, none of Google's business and click jacking is a disgusting practice. It's a text book case of Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. All the Devs working on this project should be deeply ashamed of themselves.

kodablah 8y ago
> Why is it needed at all? We have HTML, we have an agreed upon governance for it. For my selfish reasons, so I can write a competing browser that only accepts that format. While I want the spec smaller and more strict for selfish reasons (ease of implementation), it has bonus value for performance use cases. Also, there is value for devs to signify that they are attempting to conform to a certain specification (i.e. the purpose of a doctype). Sans validation the value is less, but still, having a simplified spec subset for web pages at least lets the community/ecosystem grow around it.
infogulch 8y ago
> Page load speeds are, frankly, none of Google's business If I as a user care about page speed when choosing between search results (many do, every single amp-related thread has several, this one included), then Google cares and it is their business. If the industry were capable of making fast web pages then they'd already be doing it. Claiming that "only using some features of system X" is equivalent to "use system Y which is defined as a subset of X" because a technical comparison claims that they're the same is completely missing the mark.
- mattmanser 8y ago
  And heroin makes you feel great, doesn't mean you should pay attention to anyone who says they like it. The consequences of accepting AMP are so severe that it doesn't matter if some people like the faster load times, it is utterly irrelevant.
dagenix 8y ago
> All the Devs working on this project should be deeply ashamed of themselves. Just because you are all worked up about something, doesnt mean that anyone else should be ashamed of themselves.
JoshMnem 8y ago
> It's a text book case of Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. All the Devs working on this project should be deeply ashamed of themselves. I think that anyone who works at Google has an obligation to speak up. The company is on a path to destroy the open WWW. The primary reasons for pushing AMP are clearly not about fast web pages. Open governance isn't going to fix it. The AMP project should be shut down replaced with an open discussion about how to make the Web less bloated using existing standards. Serving from CDNs in restricted formats should not be a requirement for publishing on the Web. The source of the problem is JavaScript, not HTML.
zaarn 8y ago
Google can care about page load speeds without needing AMP, I would hope that at some point they use their own tools (Their page load speed benchmarking tool) to inform their search rankings instead of invention solutions in search of a problem.

kodablah 8y ago

> Why is it needed at all? We have HTML, we have an agreed upon governance for it. For my selfish reasons, so I can write a competing browser that only accepts that format. While I want the spec smaller and more strict for selfish reasons (ease of implementation), it has bonus value for performance use cases. Also, there is value for devs to signify that they are attempting to conform to a certain specification (i.e. the purpose of a doctype). Sans validation the value is less, but still, having a simplified spec subset for web pages at least lets the community/ecosystem grow around it.

infogulch 8y ago

> Page load speeds are, frankly, none of Google's business If I as a user care about page speed when choosing between search results (many do, every single amp-related thread has several, this one included), then Google cares and it is their business. If the industry were capable of making fast web pages then they'd already be doing it. Claiming that "only using some features of system X" is equivalent to "use system Y which is defined as a subset of X" because a technical comparison claims that they're the same is completely missing the mark.

mattmanser 8y ago
And heroin makes you feel great, doesn't mean you should pay attention to anyone who says they like it. The consequences of accepting AMP are so severe that it doesn't matter if some people like the faster load times, it is utterly irrelevant.

dagenix 8y ago

> All the Devs working on this project should be deeply ashamed of themselves. Just because you are all worked up about something, doesnt mean that anyone else should be ashamed of themselves.

JoshMnem 8y ago

> It's a text book case of Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. All the Devs working on this project should be deeply ashamed of themselves. I think that anyone who works at Google has an obligation to speak up. The company is on a path to destroy the open WWW. The primary reasons for pushing AMP are clearly not about fast web pages. Open governance isn't going to fix it. The AMP project should be shut down replaced with an open discussion about how to make the Web less bloated using existing standards. Serving from CDNs in restricted formats should not be a requirement for publishing on the Web. The source of the problem is JavaScript, not HTML.

zaarn 8y ago

Google can care about page load speeds without needing AMP, I would hope that at some point they use their own tools (Their page load speed benchmarking tool) to inform their search rankings instead of invention solutions in search of a problem.