6 ms·

love their job and employer It has all the trappings of a cult. It is well known that cults use a low-protein diet for indoctrination. http://www.leaderu.com/c

by gaius 8y ago

love their job and employer It has all the trappings of a cult. It is well known that cults use a low-protein diet for indoctrination. http://www.leaderu.com/common/cults.html http://www.leaderu.com/common/cults.html

warent 8y ago
Vegetarian/vegan does not mean undernourished.
- King-Aaron 8y ago
  Not necessarily, but it can quite often be the case if the person in question isn't actively aware of the nutrients they are consuming.
  - warent 8y ago
    True, as is the case for any diet.
- gaius 8y ago
  Well, sure, you can be vegetarian on a diet of pizza and icecream and get plenty of calories but you’ll still be deficient in some nutrients.
  - warent 8y ago
    You can be on a diet of pepperoni pizza and ice cream and get plenty of calories but you’ll still be deficient in some nutrients. I don't see your point. You can be on a diet of beef and pork, get plenty of protein, and still be undernourished.
jschwartzi 8y ago
That's one detail that might be cult-like, but on the whole as long as their employment contract doesn't prescribe who employees are allowed to talk to I fail to see how it is cult-like on the whole.
- gaius 8y ago
  That is kinda what an overarching noncompete is isn’t it? Cults always try to forbid former members spilling the beans.
  - jschwartzi 8y ago
    In this case it's very specific to trade secrets. It's not really cult-like to ask people not to talk specifics about your manufacturing processes, suppliers, or customers. That's also not usually within the purview of a non-compete. Non-competes generally dictate whether you can start selling competing products with a competitor or develop the same kind of software for sale with a competitor. They generally don't prohibit finding jobs in unrelated industries. The morally reprehensible thing about a non-compete for a barista or janitor is that the knowledge of how to make coffee or clean is widely available and unless WeWork has some kind of proprietary technique for cleaning offices the non-compete is really a form of indentured servitude. And assuming there's no particular consideration given to what would happen to the janitor or barista should they lose their job and not be able to find similar work it's the kind of contract that should be illegal. It also makes me glad that I asked my employer to hold off on leasing an office for me from WeWork as I don't like doing business with companies that are that predatory. But there's nothing particularly cult-like about it.
DoreenMichele 8y ago
It can be challenging to get enough iron and B vitamins with a vegetarian diet. It's not that hard to get enough protein. Most Americans are consuming more protein than their bodies can use. I have a genetic disorder. I need about 1.5 to 2x as much nutrients as normal people to not be malnourished. I eat smaller portions of meat than your standard American diet and some of my meals are meatless. My meat-and-potatoes relatives have accused me of being vegetarian because of it. I've improved my overall nutritional status while eating semi-vegetarian by American standards. Some B vitamins are a serious problem for some vegetarians. But you would really have to be doing something wrong to not be getting adequate protein eating vegetarian.
- tomcam 8y ago
  Can someone explain the downvotes on this? There are no factual errors and the poster does not seem to be on the attack.
  - warent 8y ago
    Meta: I've noticed downvotes are starting to be handed out very liberally lately. Maybe it's time to bump the minimum "karma" score up again required to downvote, or perhaps adjusting the algorithm on how downvotes are scored.
wpietri 8y ago
In a private Slack with a thousand or so industry people, I've seen "WeWork is a cult" mentioned more than once. That isn't particularly surprising to me. Not because of anything specific to WeWork, but just because of general tech industry dynamics. Job advertisements want people who are "passionate", who "believe", who want to "change the word". We have had decades of "holy wars" and quasi-religious behavior, starting with editor choice [1] and OS [2], going up to the present moment [3][4]. It's pretty common for exposes of tech companies to talk about cult-like behavior. E.g., Dan Lyons on Hubspot [5] or John Carreyou on Theranos [6]. I don't think all startups are this way, or even most of them. But the seeds of cult-ish behavior are clearly commonplace. E.g., charismatic leaders, a group dedicated to a non-mainstream vision, people spending a lot of intense time together, hazy boundaries, top-down power structures, and a lot of young, impressionable people. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Editor_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Editor_war [2] https://tidbits.com/1995/06/26/computings-holy-war/ https://tidbits.com/1995/06/26/computings-holy-war/ [3] https://www.recode.net/2018/5/30/17386068/brad-garlinghouse-ripple-bridget-van-kralingen-ibm-kathryn-haun-stanford-cryptocurrency-interview https://www.recode.net/2018/5/30/17386068/brad-garlinghouse-... [4] https://www.recode.net/2017/12/6/16680816/elon-musk-spacex-tesla-recode-100-electric-car-rocket-hyperloop-boring https://www.recode.net/2017/12/6/16680816/elon-musk-spacex-t... [5] https://www.amazon.com/Disrupted-My-Misadventure-Start-Up-Bubble/dp/0316306096 https://www.amazon.com/Disrupted-My-Misadventure-Start-Up-Bu... [6] https://reason.com/blog/2018/06/07/theranos-elizabeth-holmes-blood-fraud https://reason.com/blog/2018/06/07/theranos-elizabeth-holmes...
- umeshunni 8y ago
  We're talking about WeWork here, not a tech company.
  - kanelbullar 8y ago
    WeWork is, in no small part, a tech company.
    - hobofan 8y ago
      In what non-small part? They have a barely functioning mobile app and portal, but that's about it. Even the IT (which I wouldn't even count towards them being a tech company) seemed ridiculously broken at the locations I've been staying in the past.
JCharante 8y ago
> It is well known that cults use a low-protein diet for indoctrination. Okay, but this reads as non-sequiter because a lack of meat in a diet does not mean that the diet is one with low-protein consumption. Certainly if one is determined to be protein deficient then cutting out some food that is high in protein would be beneficial for their goal, but that's like saying if you don't use git you are managing a project wrong and aren't using version control. If you didn't want to use version control, then that would mean you wouldn't use git, but not using git doesn't mean you don't use VC.

by gaius 8y ago

warent 8y ago

Vegetarian/vegan does not mean undernourished.

King-Aaron 8y ago
Not necessarily, but it can quite often be the case if the person in question isn't actively aware of the nutrients they are consuming.
- warent 8y ago
  True, as is the case for any diet.
gaius 8y ago
Well, sure, you can be vegetarian on a diet of pizza and icecream and get plenty of calories but you’ll still be deficient in some nutrients.
- warent 8y ago
  You can be on a diet of pepperoni pizza and ice cream and get plenty of calories but you’ll still be deficient in some nutrients. I don't see your point. You can be on a diet of beef and pork, get plenty of protein, and still be undernourished.

jschwartzi 8y ago

That's one detail that might be cult-like, but on the whole as long as their employment contract doesn't prescribe who employees are allowed to talk to I fail to see how it is cult-like on the whole.

gaius 8y ago
That is kinda what an overarching noncompete is isn’t it? Cults always try to forbid former members spilling the beans.
- jschwartzi 8y ago
  In this case it's very specific to trade secrets. It's not really cult-like to ask people not to talk specifics about your manufacturing processes, suppliers, or customers. That's also not usually within the purview of a non-compete. Non-competes generally dictate whether you can start selling competing products with a competitor or develop the same kind of software for sale with a competitor. They generally don't prohibit finding jobs in unrelated industries. The morally reprehensible thing about a non-compete for a barista or janitor is that the knowledge of how to make coffee or clean is widely available and unless WeWork has some kind of proprietary technique for cleaning offices the non-compete is really a form of indentured servitude. And assuming there's no particular consideration given to what would happen to the janitor or barista should they lose their job and not be able to find similar work it's the kind of contract that should be illegal. It also makes me glad that I asked my employer to hold off on leasing an office for me from WeWork as I don't like doing business with companies that are that predatory. But there's nothing particularly cult-like about it.

DoreenMichele 8y ago

It can be challenging to get enough iron and B vitamins with a vegetarian diet. It's not that hard to get enough protein. Most Americans are consuming more protein than their bodies can use. I have a genetic disorder. I need about 1.5 to 2x as much nutrients as normal people to not be malnourished. I eat smaller portions of meat than your standard American diet and some of my meals are meatless. My meat-and-potatoes relatives have accused me of being vegetarian because of it. I've improved my overall nutritional status while eating semi-vegetarian by American standards. Some B vitamins are a serious problem for some vegetarians. But you would really have to be doing something wrong to not be getting adequate protein eating vegetarian.

tomcam 8y ago
Can someone explain the downvotes on this? There are no factual errors and the poster does not seem to be on the attack.
- warent 8y ago
  Meta: I've noticed downvotes are starting to be handed out very liberally lately. Maybe it's time to bump the minimum "karma" score up again required to downvote, or perhaps adjusting the algorithm on how downvotes are scored.

wpietri 8y ago

In a private Slack with a thousand or so industry people, I've seen "WeWork is a cult" mentioned more than once. That isn't particularly surprising to me. Not because of anything specific to WeWork, but just because of general tech industry dynamics. Job advertisements want people who are "passionate", who "believe", who want to "change the word". We have had decades of "holy wars" and quasi-religious behavior, starting with editor choice [1] and OS [2], going up to the present moment [3][4]. It's pretty common for exposes of tech companies to talk about cult-like behavior. E.g., Dan Lyons on Hubspot [5] or John Carreyou on Theranos [6]. I don't think all startups are this way, or even most of them. But the seeds of cult-ish behavior are clearly commonplace. E.g., charismatic leaders, a group dedicated to a non-mainstream vision, people spending a lot of intense time together, hazy boundaries, top-down power structures, and a lot of young, impressionable people. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Editor_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Editor_war [2] https://tidbits.com/1995/06/26/computings-holy-war/ https://tidbits.com/1995/06/26/computings-holy-war/ [3] https://www.recode.net/2018/5/30/17386068/brad-garlinghouse-ripple-bridget-van-kralingen-ibm-kathryn-haun-stanford-cryptocurrency-interview https://www.recode.net/2018/5/30/17386068/brad-garlinghouse-... [4] https://www.recode.net/2017/12/6/16680816/elon-musk-spacex-tesla-recode-100-electric-car-rocket-hyperloop-boring https://www.recode.net/2017/12/6/16680816/elon-musk-spacex-t... [5] https://www.amazon.com/Disrupted-My-Misadventure-Start-Up-Bubble/dp/0316306096 https://www.amazon.com/Disrupted-My-Misadventure-Start-Up-Bu... [6] https://reason.com/blog/2018/06/07/theranos-elizabeth-holmes-blood-fraud https://reason.com/blog/2018/06/07/theranos-elizabeth-holmes...

umeshunni 8y ago
We're talking about WeWork here, not a tech company.
- kanelbullar 8y ago
  WeWork is, in no small part, a tech company.
  - hobofan 8y ago
    In what non-small part? They have a barely functioning mobile app and portal, but that's about it. Even the IT (which I wouldn't even count towards them being a tech company) seemed ridiculously broken at the locations I've been staying in the past.

JCharante 8y ago

> It is well known that cults use a low-protein diet for indoctrination. Okay, but this reads as non-sequiter because a lack of meat in a diet does not mean that the diet is one with low-protein consumption. Certainly if one is determined to be protein deficient then cutting out some food that is high in protein would be beneficial for their goal, but that's like saying if you don't use git you are managing a project wrong and aren't using version control. If you didn't want to use version control, then that would mean you wouldn't use git, but not using git doesn't mean you don't use VC.