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Church st in Burlington VT partially closed to cars starting in 1980 (based on Stroget in Copenhagen) and ongoing into 2005 with more and more blocks carved out

Church st in Burlington VT partially closed to cars starting in 1980 (based on Stroget in Copenhagen) and ongoing into 2005 with more and more blocks carved out for pedestrians only. It has been very successful. Why did it work, when Raleigh failed? What needs to be "considered carefully", exactly? (The large college nearby definitely helps in VT's case. But what else?) https://www.churchstmarketplace.com/ https://www.churchstmarketplace.com/ https://www.churchstmarketplace.com/about/history https://www.churchstmarketplace.com/about/history

peller 8y ago
I don't know anything about the Raleigh project but some other thoughts on maybe why Church St works: - Burlington is the biggest city in VT, and being on Lake Champlain and relatively close to the best ski areas in the state, it attracts a lot of tourists year round - A ton of local businesses downtown, urban/residential neighborhoods are also very close - A fair amount of parking (multiple parking garages, nearby on-street parking and parking lots) - There's City Hall Park, and the town promotes the 'culture', e.g. allowing street vendors and performers, and with the recentish ban on smoking, it's pushed most of the bums into the alleys/side streets
munk-a 8y ago
I'd attribute a large portion of church street's success to zoning policies, the city has kept that street focused on small business to avoid that common american experience of walking by a walmart for twenty minutes... the north end of the street was more sparse in terms of doorways and always was more empty, but the center and southern end were vibrant. So I think the key to trying to do this is to encourage small business to minimize the feet/door so that there is a reasonable variety of services available.
gascan 8y ago
Just speculating, but looking at the photos from Fayetteville, it was totally car-scale. Sure, it was pedestrian-only, but just look at the pictures of the locale. Huge buildings, long distances, wide street. This is not the best example but the first to pop to mind- compare to Pearl Street Mall, in Boulder, which seems to be doing well: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0180565,-105.2792529,3a,75y,74.44h,82.61t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sYTsjWcvQHaMkDss9oaC4cQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DYTsjWcvQHaMkDss9oaC4cQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D167.73972%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0180565,-105.2792529,3a,75y,... Which, just skimming, looks to be laid out similar to Church Street.
- ghaff 8y ago
  Among the differences are that the University of Colorado is right there and Boulder has been a fairly affluent town for a long time (even before the relatively recent immigration of Google, etc.) Also, let's not overstate the differences. The actual pedestrian mall on Pearl is just a few blocks long. And Fayetteville in Raleigh these days, while not car-free, is part of a very walkable area of downtown Raleigh with lots of restaurants, a few hotels, some shops, new condo construction, some major businesses, the convention center, government offices, etc.

peller 8y ago

I don't know anything about the Raleigh project but some other thoughts on maybe why Church St works: - Burlington is the biggest city in VT, and being on Lake Champlain and relatively close to the best ski areas in the state, it attracts a lot of tourists year round - A ton of local businesses downtown, urban/residential neighborhoods are also very close - A fair amount of parking (multiple parking garages, nearby on-street parking and parking lots) - There's City Hall Park, and the town promotes the 'culture', e.g. allowing street vendors and performers, and with the recentish ban on smoking, it's pushed most of the bums into the alleys/side streets

munk-a 8y ago

I'd attribute a large portion of church street's success to zoning policies, the city has kept that street focused on small business to avoid that common american experience of walking by a walmart for twenty minutes... the north end of the street was more sparse in terms of doorways and always was more empty, but the center and southern end were vibrant. So I think the key to trying to do this is to encourage small business to minimize the feet/door so that there is a reasonable variety of services available.

gascan 8y ago

Just speculating, but looking at the photos from Fayetteville, it was totally car-scale. Sure, it was pedestrian-only, but just look at the pictures of the locale. Huge buildings, long distances, wide street. This is not the best example but the first to pop to mind- compare to Pearl Street Mall, in Boulder, which seems to be doing well: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0180565,-105.2792529,3a,75y,74.44h,82.61t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sYTsjWcvQHaMkDss9oaC4cQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DYTsjWcvQHaMkDss9oaC4cQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D167.73972%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0180565,-105.2792529,3a,75y,... Which, just skimming, looks to be laid out similar to Church Street.

ghaff 8y ago
Among the differences are that the University of Colorado is right there and Boulder has been a fairly affluent town for a long time (even before the relatively recent immigration of Google, etc.) Also, let's not overstate the differences. The actual pedestrian mall on Pearl is just a few blocks long. And Fayetteville in Raleigh these days, while not car-free, is part of a very walkable area of downtown Raleigh with lots of restaurants, a few hotels, some shops, new condo construction, some major businesses, the convention center, government offices, etc.