10 ms·

I don't know why this didn't occur to me but in San Juan Capistrano, CA, I enjoy that place so much with my kids because of the fairly large area where cars hav

I don't know why this didn't occur to me but in San Juan Capistrano, CA, I enjoy that place so much with my kids because of the fairly large area where cars have to have very slow speed limit or no cars allowed at all and pure walking which was far better even. There is such freedom allowing your children to laugh and play and walk on their own pace without worrying they'll be run over and having to strictly hold their hand near each cross walk where cars zip by at instant collision death speeds. I could hear the birds too. Was calming and slows the perception of time so you can actually relax.

technofiend 8y ago
There is a gated neighborhood of large, well appointed homes near Rice University in Houston.* They open up every once in a while for tours, particularly at Christmas. More than once kids or adults raised there have mentioned being able to just play in the street as one of their fondest memories of the place. In car-centric Houston their experience is rare if not exactly unique. *1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadyside,_Houston https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadyside,_Houston
- komali2 8y ago
  Ex-Houstonian here: down there we worship and give sacrifice to the motor gods. We'll build massive multi million dollar freeway interchanges[0] as monument to our gods. No place for busses. Our attempt at public transit was a slow tram that runs up and down main street through dozens of intersections, pushing any hapless motorist not expecting a train on the fucking road it encounters out of the way. So when rice closes off the gates, it is like a little paradise. I disagree that it's "not unique," I can't think of a single other place in tbe entirety of Houston (a city so wide that it can take two hours to drive across if you go corner to corner, in non-rush-hour) where you get to experience that. [0]https://goo.gl/images/ZYJfEo https://goo.gl/images/ZYJfEo
  - technofiend 8y ago
    >I disagree that it's "not unique," When I say it's "not unique" I'm acknowledging there are other gated communities with low traffic. The closest one I can think of to Rice is in Montrose on Courtland Place. If you ever went to KPFT on Lovett and noticed a big wall where Lovett ends that's the back side of their little community. Look on street view or satellite view of Google maps at Bagby and Courtland Place to see what I mean. Also the first neighborhood I listed is separate and distinct from the Rice University campus. It shares a border but it's not part of their land holdings: all the homes are privately owned.
francisofascii 8y ago
Exactly. Walking with young kids is so stressful. All that kids want to do is run ahead, and I keep having to yell at them to stop, wait. You can never be at ease.
- enriquto 8y ago
  A city with fast cars running around is the least human-friendly environment that we have built on purpose. People often complain about hostile or "anti-human" architecture [1], but those are silly details. The sad tragedy is building the whole city around the needs of cars. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostile_architecture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostile_architecture
  - wahern 8y ago
    I wonder what effect the increasing performance of cars has had on safety. Any modern car can accelerate to ridiculously unsafe speeds within the span of a single block, whereas cars from the 1970s and even 1980s were sluggish. Similarly, modern cars can make sharp turns where older cars risked skidding. Then factor in things like less noise and larger A-pillars reducing visibility[1], and modern cars seem more anti-pedestrian. The gap between inattentiveness and recklessness has been closed. Even considering improved braking, there was simply more margin for error back when speeds were naturally lower. I know cars have always been dangerous to pedestrians. But there were other factors at play, like drunk driving being nearly ubiquitous. [1] The left A-pillar in my Honda CRV has just the right size and placement that it blocks the far left-hand corner of the intersection from view. A pedestrian about to cross the street is invisible to me unless I physically lean over or have already entered the intersection.
    - mywittyname 8y ago
      > modern cars seem more anti-pedestrian. Pedestrian safety is a big consideration with modern cars, as it's a legal requirement in most countries. Most of the homogeneity in modern car design is due to these regulations -- low hoodlines are rare because there needs to be a buffer between the engine and the hood; the hood can't extend all the way to the grill because the edge causes excessive injuries; and the front ends of cars have a weird bulge because pedestrians struck should be tossed to the side of the car to prevent them from being run over. That's not even getting into automatic braking systems or backup cameras. In contrast, a 65 Toronado looks designed to cause the maximum amount of damage to any person you run over.
wahern 8y ago
This is why I like theme parks.[1] It's sad because in America we've largely relegated what should be a normal living environment to fascimiles of imaginary places. Actually, I live in San Francisco and the "downtowns" of each neighborhood do allow kids some freedom away from their parents (e.g. to dart in and out of stores and restaurants without waiting for the parent), but it's limited to a single block unless you want to risk being run over. Hit-and-runs occur here regularly, unfortunately, because the city is just barely pedestrian friendly enough that pedestrians feel comfortable, but not friendly enough that cars are actually forced to slow down (e.g. streets too wide). If car and pedestrian are not both carefully paying attention, accidents happen. [1] My wife doesn't like theme parks. But where she's from you never let kids out of sight, regardless, so they offer little respite for her.
- sebringj 8y ago
  I think there is a big difference though. Theme parks are super over crowded and you end up having sore feet and wait in long lines all day and still having to hold on to your kids of fear of losing them in the crowd. I guess its still better than fear of death.
  - jonas21 8y ago
    I visited San Juan Capistrano the other day, and it reminded me quite a bit of a theme park. There's not much housing around the historic area, so nearly everyone drives in and parks in one of the parking lots surrounding it. Then they spend a few hours pretending like they live in this walkable, historic town, maybe they visit the Mission, then it's back into the car and the suburbs.
- GauntletWizard 8y ago
  The area your talking about, where there's little places where kids can play: it's called the Suburbs. Growing up in the suburbs, cars went slow enough that we could play in the street. The neighborhood grocery was about two miles away and we could walk or ride our bikes, and we had plenty of friends houses along the route should we need to stop. There's not the density of little shops that you might find in SF, but as a kid you don't need that density (I don't need it as an adult; the suburbs I live in have a nice downtown, but if I need serious shopping, I have Amazon) Suburbs, much reviled here, are the answer to all of the density problems that people are complaining about. Mass transit works with commuter rail. There's no argument except prestige to stay in the city.
mycellium 8y ago
I grew up in San Juan and my parents still live there. What areas have cars been banned or limited?
- sebringj 8y ago
  There is a nice place by the train station where you park and can walk into the little shops. The general speed limit is much lower than in LA and noise is much reduced. "Banned" is the wrong word. There are no roads in that area after you walk past the station but there is a parking structure by the theatre. I think in general, places like The Grove and and Irvine Outdoor Mall are like that in that you can walk freely but they still feel busy and overly commercialized because they are malls. I particularly liked the calmer area of San Juan downtown.
jimmaswell 8y ago
Being able to drive places feels much more like freedom to me than having to walk everywhere. As a kid I literally never walked into the road because I knew it was dangerous, so maybe that's just a problem of communicating the risk properly.
- arbitrary_name 8y ago
  This is an almost uniquely American point of view. To obtain this freedom you must : 1. Get a license and learn to drive 2. Buy or lease a large, rarely utilised machine 3. Keep it maintained 4. Keep it fuelled 5. Ensure your tax dollars are spent on enormous infrastructure projects 6. Continue paying for the maintenance of said infrastructure 7. Undergo the significant risk of getting in a vehicle, and impose higher risks on all those around you 8. Pollute the air around you with fumes 9. Warp the development of all living spaces around you to suit your convenience, regardless of cost or benefit Your freedom sounds like my tyranny.
  - jimmaswell 8y ago
    1. Easy in the US 2. You can get a good reliable used car for under $1000 easily, and I use mine every day 3. Not a big deal 4. 3 5. I don't mind paying taxes for infrastructure 6. 5 7. Acceptable risk for the massive benefit to me 8. Efficiency is constantly improving and there are no emissions from an EV 9. How is that any different from how we shape the landscape for our own benefit in every other way?
    - bobthepanda 8y ago
      40 hours a week at federal minimum wage is $15,000. AAA considers average car ownership cost to be at $6,000 a year. https://www.moneycrashers.com/living-without-car/ https://www.moneycrashers.com/living-without-car/ That is a ridiculous cost to just throw on poor people. And this is assuming a poor person has a full time job with no dependents, and has no other competing concerns for money.
      - 8y ago
JaggerFoo 8y ago
What area of SJC are you talking about? I go there quite often and would like to see this for myself. Especially the area where no cars are allowed. Cheers
- sebringj 8y ago
  "No cars allowed" possibly service vehicles to the shops? But I never see cars and looks like they are never supposed to drive there. https://www.google.com/maps/dir/ZOOMARS,+31791+Los+Rios+St,+San+Juan+Capistrano,+CA+92675//@33.501302,-117.6654415,454m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m8!4m7!1m5!1m1!1s0x80dcf1e7c60a57f7:0xae0831d4e4333027!2m2!1d-117.664974!2d33.500522!1m0 https://www.google.com/maps/dir/ZOOMARS,+31791+Los+Rios+St,+... See near Zoomars and Regency Theaters as the start of it where you park then you can walk past the station and go to the coffee shop and go to the restaurants etc there are never cars in there or any traffic

technofiend 8y ago

There is a gated neighborhood of large, well appointed homes near Rice University in Houston.* They open up every once in a while for tours, particularly at Christmas. More than once kids or adults raised there have mentioned being able to just play in the street as one of their fondest memories of the place. In car-centric Houston their experience is rare if not exactly unique. *1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadyside,_Houston https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadyside,_Houston

komali2 8y ago
Ex-Houstonian here: down there we worship and give sacrifice to the motor gods. We'll build massive multi million dollar freeway interchanges[0] as monument to our gods. No place for busses. Our attempt at public transit was a slow tram that runs up and down main street through dozens of intersections, pushing any hapless motorist not expecting a train on the fucking road it encounters out of the way. So when rice closes off the gates, it is like a little paradise. I disagree that it's "not unique," I can't think of a single other place in tbe entirety of Houston (a city so wide that it can take two hours to drive across if you go corner to corner, in non-rush-hour) where you get to experience that. [0]https://goo.gl/images/ZYJfEo https://goo.gl/images/ZYJfEo
- technofiend 8y ago
  >I disagree that it's "not unique," When I say it's "not unique" I'm acknowledging there are other gated communities with low traffic. The closest one I can think of to Rice is in Montrose on Courtland Place. If you ever went to KPFT on Lovett and noticed a big wall where Lovett ends that's the back side of their little community. Look on street view or satellite view of Google maps at Bagby and Courtland Place to see what I mean. Also the first neighborhood I listed is separate and distinct from the Rice University campus. It shares a border but it's not part of their land holdings: all the homes are privately owned.

francisofascii 8y ago

Exactly. Walking with young kids is so stressful. All that kids want to do is run ahead, and I keep having to yell at them to stop, wait. You can never be at ease.

enriquto 8y ago
A city with fast cars running around is the least human-friendly environment that we have built on purpose. People often complain about hostile or "anti-human" architecture [1], but those are silly details. The sad tragedy is building the whole city around the needs of cars. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostile_architecture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostile_architecture
- wahern 8y ago
  I wonder what effect the increasing performance of cars has had on safety. Any modern car can accelerate to ridiculously unsafe speeds within the span of a single block, whereas cars from the 1970s and even 1980s were sluggish. Similarly, modern cars can make sharp turns where older cars risked skidding. Then factor in things like less noise and larger A-pillars reducing visibility[1], and modern cars seem more anti-pedestrian. The gap between inattentiveness and recklessness has been closed. Even considering improved braking, there was simply more margin for error back when speeds were naturally lower. I know cars have always been dangerous to pedestrians. But there were other factors at play, like drunk driving being nearly ubiquitous. [1] The left A-pillar in my Honda CRV has just the right size and placement that it blocks the far left-hand corner of the intersection from view. A pedestrian about to cross the street is invisible to me unless I physically lean over or have already entered the intersection.
  - mywittyname 8y ago
    > modern cars seem more anti-pedestrian. Pedestrian safety is a big consideration with modern cars, as it's a legal requirement in most countries. Most of the homogeneity in modern car design is due to these regulations -- low hoodlines are rare because there needs to be a buffer between the engine and the hood; the hood can't extend all the way to the grill because the edge causes excessive injuries; and the front ends of cars have a weird bulge because pedestrians struck should be tossed to the side of the car to prevent them from being run over. That's not even getting into automatic braking systems or backup cameras. In contrast, a 65 Toronado looks designed to cause the maximum amount of damage to any person you run over.

wahern 8y ago

This is why I like theme parks.[1] It's sad because in America we've largely relegated what should be a normal living environment to fascimiles of imaginary places. Actually, I live in San Francisco and the "downtowns" of each neighborhood do allow kids some freedom away from their parents (e.g. to dart in and out of stores and restaurants without waiting for the parent), but it's limited to a single block unless you want to risk being run over. Hit-and-runs occur here regularly, unfortunately, because the city is just barely pedestrian friendly enough that pedestrians feel comfortable, but not friendly enough that cars are actually forced to slow down (e.g. streets too wide). If car and pedestrian are not both carefully paying attention, accidents happen. [1] My wife doesn't like theme parks. But where she's from you never let kids out of sight, regardless, so they offer little respite for her.

sebringj 8y ago
I think there is a big difference though. Theme parks are super over crowded and you end up having sore feet and wait in long lines all day and still having to hold on to your kids of fear of losing them in the crowd. I guess its still better than fear of death.
- jonas21 8y ago
  I visited San Juan Capistrano the other day, and it reminded me quite a bit of a theme park. There's not much housing around the historic area, so nearly everyone drives in and parks in one of the parking lots surrounding it. Then they spend a few hours pretending like they live in this walkable, historic town, maybe they visit the Mission, then it's back into the car and the suburbs.
GauntletWizard 8y ago
The area your talking about, where there's little places where kids can play: it's called the Suburbs. Growing up in the suburbs, cars went slow enough that we could play in the street. The neighborhood grocery was about two miles away and we could walk or ride our bikes, and we had plenty of friends houses along the route should we need to stop. There's not the density of little shops that you might find in SF, but as a kid you don't need that density (I don't need it as an adult; the suburbs I live in have a nice downtown, but if I need serious shopping, I have Amazon) Suburbs, much reviled here, are the answer to all of the density problems that people are complaining about. Mass transit works with commuter rail. There's no argument except prestige to stay in the city.

mycellium 8y ago

I grew up in San Juan and my parents still live there. What areas have cars been banned or limited?

sebringj 8y ago
There is a nice place by the train station where you park and can walk into the little shops. The general speed limit is much lower than in LA and noise is much reduced. "Banned" is the wrong word. There are no roads in that area after you walk past the station but there is a parking structure by the theatre. I think in general, places like The Grove and and Irvine Outdoor Mall are like that in that you can walk freely but they still feel busy and overly commercialized because they are malls. I particularly liked the calmer area of San Juan downtown.

jimmaswell 8y ago

Being able to drive places feels much more like freedom to me than having to walk everywhere. As a kid I literally never walked into the road because I knew it was dangerous, so maybe that's just a problem of communicating the risk properly.

arbitrary_name 8y ago
This is an almost uniquely American point of view. To obtain this freedom you must : 1. Get a license and learn to drive 2. Buy or lease a large, rarely utilised machine 3. Keep it maintained 4. Keep it fuelled 5. Ensure your tax dollars are spent on enormous infrastructure projects 6. Continue paying for the maintenance of said infrastructure 7. Undergo the significant risk of getting in a vehicle, and impose higher risks on all those around you 8. Pollute the air around you with fumes 9. Warp the development of all living spaces around you to suit your convenience, regardless of cost or benefit Your freedom sounds like my tyranny.
- jimmaswell 8y ago
  1. Easy in the US 2. You can get a good reliable used car for under $1000 easily, and I use mine every day 3. Not a big deal 4. 3 5. I don't mind paying taxes for infrastructure 6. 5 7. Acceptable risk for the massive benefit to me 8. Efficiency is constantly improving and there are no emissions from an EV 9. How is that any different from how we shape the landscape for our own benefit in every other way?
  - bobthepanda 8y ago
    40 hours a week at federal minimum wage is $15,000. AAA considers average car ownership cost to be at $6,000 a year. https://www.moneycrashers.com/living-without-car/ https://www.moneycrashers.com/living-without-car/ That is a ridiculous cost to just throw on poor people. And this is assuming a poor person has a full time job with no dependents, and has no other competing concerns for money.
    - 8y ago

JaggerFoo 8y ago

What area of SJC are you talking about? I go there quite often and would like to see this for myself. Especially the area where no cars are allowed. Cheers

sebringj 8y ago
"No cars allowed" possibly service vehicles to the shops? But I never see cars and looks like they are never supposed to drive there. https://www.google.com/maps/dir/ZOOMARS,+31791+Los+Rios+St,+San+Juan+Capistrano,+CA+92675//@33.501302,-117.6654415,454m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m8!4m7!1m5!1m1!1s0x80dcf1e7c60a57f7:0xae0831d4e4333027!2m2!1d-117.664974!2d33.500522!1m0 https://www.google.com/maps/dir/ZOOMARS,+31791+Los+Rios+St,+... See near Zoomars and Regency Theaters as the start of it where you park then you can walk past the station and go to the coffee shop and go to the restaurants etc there are never cars in there or any traffic