12 ms·

Disclosure of autism at work holds risks and benefits

109 points by chc2149 8y ago

petercooper 8y ago
It was disheartening to be outwardly liked and praised but to never receive a real promotion. I've noticed this as a common unfortunate side effect of disclosing anything that has a stigma attached and explains why the upper echelons of most pursuits (politics, business, sport) still tend to be quite homogenous. While a small but ever increasing spotlight is being shone on issues faced by various minorities in the workplace (particularly by race and gender), disabilities and disorders tend to be less obvious and people are less keen to talk about them. I'm autistic myself and have shielded myself from a lot of these issues by running my own company and delegating things I'm weak at but I've been very lucky to reach that point and my employees are very patient with me. More work needs to happen to make standard workplaces take advantage of the many skills autistic people can bring to companies but without putting a glass ceiling on where they can go. The tech industry, in particular, is ahead of the game on this, I believe, due to some common autistic traits actually being an advantage. Companies like Microsoft have also actively developed programs to engage with and hire autistic people: https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2018/04/02/autismawareness2018/ https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2018/04/02/au...
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago
  > tend to be quite homogenous Or to ensure their perception as such. At least until they’re ensconced.
- collyw 8y ago
  >minorities in the workplace (particularly by race and gender) We have a minority gender? (Or is that a can of worms I shoudln't have opened?)
  - theguppydream 8y ago
    In the higher positions, yes.
  - alehul 8y ago
    Throughout tech, women are a minority in the workplace, even if not a minority in the overall population, which is one potential meaning of "minorities in the workplace." At least that's what I gathered.
  - organsnyder 8y ago
    In most workplaces, yes. For many fields (IT, executive-level, politics...), women are in the minority. For others (teaching, nursing...), men are in the minority. One big disparity is that most of the female-dominated fields tend to be lower-paying.
    - baud147258 8y ago
      I'm pretty sure that construction and truck-driving which are male-dominated are lower-paying than medical, which is female-dominated.
  - dmm 8y ago
    Women make up 51% of the US population so clearly men are a minority. Ha! But really they probably mean a minority in a specific career or environment. For example, ~6% of truck drivers are female but only ~18% of primary and secondary teachers are male.
    - bb611 8y ago
      Men are 42% of teachers at the high school level: https://www.aaeteachers.org/index.php/blog/757-the-teacher-gender-gap https://www.aaeteachers.org/index.php/blog/757-the-teacher-g... School administrators are overwhelming male: http://aasa.org/SchoolAdministratorArticle.aspx?id=14492 http://aasa.org/SchoolAdministratorArticle.aspx?id=14492 I'm male, and taught K-5 special education for 2.5 years in my first job out of college. Few men join the profession, and many of them leave for better paying jobs, but I think a huge part of it is society's willingness to make raising children women's work. This is the "oh Daddy is babysitting!" phenomenon happening at the professional level.
    - chapium 8y ago
      Majority/minority are not strictly numbers in this context. Its more about opportunities whose limiting factor is age/race/gender etc.
      - collyw 8y ago
        I have yet to see decent evidence of limiting factor being race / gender where I work (in Europe). Age is a bit different as experience is closely tied to it.
  - pavel_lishin 8y ago
    Don't forget people who don't easily conform to the binary gender breakdown, or people who may be in the middle of a transition.
  - draw_down 8y ago
    Come on
  - petercooper 8y ago
    I don't think women are equally represented in the upper echelons of politics or business. For example, only 29% of FTSE 100 board members are women - https://www.gov.uk/government/news/record-number-of-women-on-ftse-100-boards https://www.gov.uk/government/news/record-number-of-women-on... - so that makes them a minority in that context, no? It's a bit like how people of certain races may be considered "minorities" in our society, yet there could be billions of people of that race elsewhere in the world.
  - will_brown 8y ago
    Under the law...one gender, while not a minority, is a protected class. Protected classes are qualified for special treatment in law and policy, particularly in the context of employment law.
    - astura 8y ago
      False, all genders (including male) are protected classes. "We didn't hire you because we think women make better caregivers" is just as illegal as "We didn't hire you because we think men make better middle managers." http://www1.eeoc.gov/eeoc/newsroom/release/5-2-18.cfm http://www1.eeoc.gov/eeoc/newsroom/release/5-2-18.cfm >The Children's Home, Inc., a Tampa nonprofit child care organization also known as the Children's Home Network, will pay $18,000 and provide training for its human resources and management employees to settle a sex discrimination lawsuit brought by the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC), the agency announced today. The EEOC's lawsuit charged that The Children's Home violated federal law when it refused to consider a male employee, Luis Vasquez, for a position in its maternity home program based on his sex. The suit further alleged that, Vasquez, after voicing his concerns about the company's refusal to consider him because he is a male, was prevented from applying to any other positions with the organization. https://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/newsroom/release/7-30-18b.cfm https://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/newsroom/release/7-30-18b.cfm >BALTIMORE - Park School of Baltimore Inc., a private school in Pikesville, Md., violated federal law when it refused to renew the employment contract of a male softball coach because it preferred female leadership, the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) charged in a lawsuit it announced today.
      - will_brown 8y ago
        You are correct, and I intended to reflect just the point gender is a protected class whether or not it is the/a minority gender in the context of the employers work place, industry as a whole and society at large. I suppose my comment was poorly worded and open to interpretation based on use of “one gender”. Of course there are exceptions to gender discrimination that does allow an employer to hire on the basis of sex (I.e. bonafide occupational qualification).
  - astura 8y ago
    The statistical definition of "minority" isn't the same as the sociological definition of "minority." It's not a numerical measurement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minority_group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minority_group >"a group of people who, because of their physical or cultural characteristics, are singled out from the others in the society in which they live for differential and unequal treatment, and who therefore regard themselves as objects of collective discrimination"
  - unstuckdev 8y ago
    Influence doesn't scale neatly with numbers. Also, people with nonbinary genders are helped by more equal binary representation since they're affected by the same problems that affect everyone regardless of identity in homogeneous environments. Even people in the statistical and social plurality are worse off with less variety. I've never seen a place made worse by keeping space for more perspectives.
- ultraforce 8y ago
  I am personally really lucky as I am pretty high functioning on the spectrum, I am studying to go into the tech industry and my parents are both very supportive and our family is upper middle class. That's just to say results may vary but I know there are multiple organizations that have come to do stuff at my university to set up job opportunities for those on the spectrum. They also function to inform students on the spectrum of the labour laws in Ontario and what that means in terms of helping people on the spectrum work as well as they can.
matkinz 8y ago
Disclosing a mental illness at work sounds like the worst idea you could ever have. I think it's better not to say anything and, if you wrong someone because of your illness, maybe tell that person in private and apologise. Unfortunately doing that makes it sound like an excuse. I'm not saying I have a better solution. Some people simply aren't apt for the real world. That's sad but it's the truth.
- duggan 8y ago
  > Some people simply aren't apt for the real world. That's sad but it's the truth. The same argument might have been made before women's suffrage, civil rights, laws around accessibility, etc. Beyond physical laws, "the real world" is what we make it.
  - RankingMember 8y ago
    Bingo. The "real world" isn't some static thing set upon us; we shape it both actively (e.g. fighting for suffrage) and passively (sitting around being sad for ourselves).
- blattimwind 8y ago
  > Disclosing a mental illness at work sounds like the worst idea you could ever have. I dunno, I worked with a small number of people on the spectrum before and it wasn't like it required a lot of disclosure to get that.
  - sidlls 8y ago
    Not all autists have the same collection or severity of symptoms, though, so it's not always obvious.
  - loriverkutya 8y ago
    Because a lots of people on the spectrum learned (or forced to learn) how to hide the obvious behaviours and you just can't tell about them. After I was diagnosed and I invested some time into studying about autism, I realised that there is handful of colleges, who are most probably on the spectrum, but they have a really systematic approach on hiding shortcomings and using autistic traits to their advantage. Also I'm pretty sure I have collegues, who hide it so well, that nobody notices it at work.
callesgg 8y ago
I have found it best to not talk about any psychological pathology with anyone that does not understand it(no one really understands but some people understand that they don't understand). You can mention the symptoms, but don't label it, as soon as you insert the word autism, schizophrenia, depression people will apply their own preconceived deeply flawed interpretations of the problem.
- draw_down 8y ago
  Yeah, I just can’t imagine ever doing this. It seems like a terrible idea.
- notyourday 8y ago
  Disclosing anything not directly related to the work (i.e. health/future plans/dreams/difficulties/struggles) at work is a terrible idea. Every single person who thinks or advocates otherwise lives in a bubble -- betting on a correct outcome is no difficult than betting on rationality of the market. Remember, market can be irrational for longer than you can remain solvent.
  - callesgg 8y ago
    That really depends on what you want out of your workplace. If all you want is money to fuel the rest of your life then i think you are on point. Personally i think life is to short/demanding, one needs to find an appropriate balance between work and personal life. I would rather have the people at work be friends than foes.
    - dasyatidprime 8y ago
      Did you mean “friends”, or am I not getting the pun?
      - callesgg 8y ago
        Yes i did mean friends:)
kraig911 8y ago
I'm having difficultly explaining my child has autism and need the time off all the time. Seriously people's expectations versus handling reality are very misaligned. Everyone constantly tells me I look sleepy and I've over heard from some that maybe I drink too much. They don't understand the time it takes to drive a kid to see 3 different specialists every other week, to drive to and from ABA therapy (which doesn't keep consistent hours or after care) they don't understand that she can't get into daycare (she's been kicked out by almost everywhere) and they definitely don't get why I'm like just a grain of sand away from losing it.
- Humdeee 8y ago
  For others to suggest you're drinking too much is both strange and absurd... it would be one of the last suggestions I were to brainstorm, but perhaps I'm naive in that regard.
- 0d311 8y ago
  What you’re doing is worth it. Thank you for it.
- ciaranm 8y ago
  Hey, just want to say that I've watched my own parents handle this with my youngest brother (now 13). It's incredibly difficult and draining both physically and emotionally. I can't imagine how tough it is first hand as a parent.
  - awakeasleep 8y ago
    Does it at least improve as they get older?
    - jasonlotito 8y ago
      Not the OP, but I can answer this. It depends. Autism is a spectrum, not a single condition. I have two children with autism, and they are different. The younger one is much more self-sufficient than the older one. Has it gotten easier? With the younger one? Yes. With the older one? No. The reasons are many. Both are still in diapers at 8 and 9 (soon to be 10), though the 8-year-old is getting potty trained. We are hopeful. The older one will probably never be out of diapers. The older one is also fairly big for his age. He always has been. He's also strong, does not know his own strength, and almost the height of my wife. She cannot lift him. Luckily, he's an affectionate child, so usually he just wants hugs or to sit on laps and be tickled. We have a stroller for him so we can take him places as he has low-tone muscles. Both are a flight risk (though the younger one is better now). The older one would wander into the road without a care. But it's hard. Really hard. And as they get older, there will be less and less support. At some point, we will not be able to properly care for him. However, society for the most part ignores this (despite the US doing a very good job compared to other nations). I love my children. I love that they are happy. They smile, they laugh, and that's all I want for them for their lives. Your priorities as a parent quickly changes when you learn this. Instead of hoping they have a good job and are successful, you reevaluate your hopes and aspirations for them and you. You realize that success isn't money or a startup, it's happiness. If my older child is happy for the rest of his life, how can I feel anything less than joy. I know people far more "successful" and far more "wealthy" and "doing what they love" and yet, they won't ever be as happy as my sons are. But it's hard. It's just hard because everything is harder than it should be. Everything takes longer, everything requires compromise, and not everything is available to you. The thing to remember is that my story is mine alone. Autism is a spectrum, and some will have it much easier. I love my two boys, and I would do anything for them, and all I want is for them to be happy. But it's hard.
Nasrudith 8y ago
This highlights some of the underlying irrationalities and insanities of "normal" society. The rational thing is low effort - not giving a damn unless it is somehow actually relevant. Yet management insists upon setting up additional talent filters for petty reasons and go with what flatters themselves above all else. We see things like the most social positions - managers having closed offices while giving open office plans and cubicles to the people with conventrative work.
sjg007 8y ago
Just as an FYI, autism is considered a disability so your employer has to make reasonable accommodations.
- chimeracoder 8y ago
  > Just as an FYI, autism is considered a disability so your employer has to make reasonable accommodations. Yes, but you have to disclose it in order for the ADA to apply in this case, and as the article explains, there are risks to disclosing as well.
  - pseudalopex 8y ago
    You don't have to identify the underlying condition, but it may be awkward not to.
- pmiller2 8y ago
  It’s not really that simple. As another commenter says, you have to disclose before you can formally request accommodation. And, given the disadvantages of doing so, it’s often not a good idea to disclose until there are problems. By that point, the employer might not be very cooperative, and, even if they are, the process of requesting accommodation need not be made easy or explained well. And, if things still go south despite disclosure and attempts to request accommodation, the options for dealing with that are limited. Basically, you can make an EEOC complaint, and that’s it. You will not win any friends by doing so, either.
  - sjg007 8y ago
    You can always file a lawsuit in addition to the EEOC complaint.
    - pmiller2 8y ago
      How is that supposed to make things better? You get all the disadvantages of filing with the EEOC, combined with all the stress and headaches of a lawsuit, and you get to be known as “that person who sued their employer.”
thesperg 8y ago
As someone with many Aspergers tendencies, I can tell you that most work, school and social environments are not great for us. While I think it is annoying to have Aspergers and be expected to act “normally,” I can see it would have many downsides for people to claim Aspergers status and bring this into regular office environments rather than develop coping strategies. It takes very, very little time for normal people to come to understand that I am “weird” and that I don’t provide expected responses to normal interactions. This year, my social weirdness has resulted in situations where I have gotten into fights with my coworkers who decided to attempt to bully me after they realized that I don’t have normal social skills. Unfortunately, the only techniques I have at my disposal are to make it very, very costly for people to bully me. I don’t have the ability to come up with proper responses to nasty comments in real time. When people say things to me I don’t like, it takes me a long time to articulate to myself what the problem is and why it made me mad and by then it is too late - That person now thinks I am an easy target and persists in their behavior. After reading and learning more about Aspergers I realize that this trait and many others are common. It was very helpful to learn from other people with this sort of condition and have developed coping strategies. I truly recommend doing a lot of research (not on the internet, I mean real books written by qualified people) if you suspect you have Aspergers. I tend think about something someone said or did to me for several days and even months. I seethe. Normal people tend to have situationally appropriate responses to small provocations, I develop anxiety about them. I manage a team of people and get paid over $330,000 / year. The idea that I still act and feel this way is insane and so immature but that’s how my brain works.
- pmiller2 8y ago
  What do you mean by “make it very, very costly for people to bully me?” That sounds to me like a strategy that can easily and frequently backfire.
  - Sileni 8y ago
    [Not op] Salted earth. It does backfire, especially for that relationship. Usually if it goes to that extreme I'm not going to be able to save the relationship. But anyone who witnesses you burning a whole forest down to kill a squirrel tends to leave you be after that.
nugga 8y ago
Be aware that not every person has your best interest at heart and occasionally you may come across people who will abuse your weakness if you put yourself into a vulnerable position or paint yourself as an easy target. This may be a fringe issue but if you declare yourself to be socially inept/awkward, the sharks may come.
- smelly1098 8y ago
  Just curious. Is it pretty common for this to happen? I just got completely marginalized at my last workplace after they realized how socially inept I was and basically forced out the door. It also happened my job before that. Both were startups though. Wondering if that's pretty common or if I just had bad workplaces?
  - nugga 8y ago
    Bullies will be bullies and it is not uncommon for people wanting to belong to a group or take sides at the expense of someone else. This sort of behaviour seems to be common especially during childhood in schools where someone will be 'it', if you know what I mean. Now don't take this the wrong way and think the world is against you and don't get bitter. These moments can be great moments to learn and grow up, and not every act that seems hostile is, or is at least deliberately so in full awareness of the perpetrator. Like it or not, the onus is also on you to fix your shit, whatever that may be, and try to understand these situations and what behaviour on your part may contribute to landing in them. I'm talking in general terms not knowing anyone's situation but mine.
csense 8y ago
I feel like it's an open secret that a huge percentage [1] of people in the tech industry are somewhere on the autism spectrum. Whether they've been formally diagnosed is another question. [1] I don't have numbers, but greater than 50% wouldn't be surprising.
- wwwater 8y ago
  Although I do agree that the percentage of people on the spectrum is higher in tech industry than in other industries, I think it's not higher than some 5-15%. When you ascribe to every introverted person being on the spectrum, you neglect the significance of it in people who really have it. It's like you're saying "yeah, we're all like this, so don't pretend you can't do this or that".
- forgottenpass 8y ago
  Noticing that someone doesn't choose to play all the reindeer games the same way I would play them is different from discovering that they're fundamentally incapable.
Pica_soO 8y ago
Disclose nothing, all the benefits of today, are not worth the risk with what humanity may be only ten years from now. What is disclosed cant be retaken. Look into a history book. Do fight all information collected, in fact produce a huge amount of wrong information, if your information ever leaked. Google and amazon would support Hitler today, if he where on the rise.
Ricardus 8y ago
There are jobs where I would absolutely never disclose being on the spectrum. Typical corporate 9-5 stuff. But my current gig is as a technical director at an art museum, and my aspie super power is technical stuff (as it relates to this) like lighting and sound. I have disclosed being on the spectrum to many people at work, and they didn't bat an eyelid. It's super mellow and SO not corporate. It's great. A perfect fit, really. A lot of is is me hiding in the booth, so I don't have to interact with people if I don't want to, but pre-show stuff ALWAYS requires me to interact with artists. Thankfully I can fake that part. Usually when I demonstrate competence at the task at hand they don't care about the rest.

109 points by chc2149 8y ago

It was disheartening to be outwardly liked and praised but to never receive a real promotion. I've noticed this as a common unfortunate side effect of disclosing anything that has a stigma attached and explains why the upper echelons of most pursuits (politics, business, sport) still tend to be quite homogenous. While a small but ever increasing spotlight is being shone on issues faced by various minorities in the workplace (particularly by race and gender), disabilities and disorders tend to be less obvious and people are less keen to talk about them. I'm autistic myself and have shielded myself from a lot of these issues by running my own company and delegating things I'm weak at but I've been very lucky to reach that point and my employees are very patient with me. More work needs to happen to make standard workplaces take advantage of the many skills autistic people can bring to companies but without putting a glass ceiling on where they can go. The tech industry, in particular, is ahead of the game on this, I believe, due to some common autistic traits actually being an advantage. Companies like Microsoft have also actively developed programs to engage with and hire autistic people: https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2018/04/02/autismawareness2018/ https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/accessibility/2018/04/02/au...

JumpCrisscross 8y ago
> tend to be quite homogenous Or to ensure their perception as such. At least until they’re ensconced.
collyw 8y ago
>minorities in the workplace (particularly by race and gender) We have a minority gender? (Or is that a can of worms I shoudln't have opened?)
- theguppydream 8y ago
  In the higher positions, yes.
- alehul 8y ago
  Throughout tech, women are a minority in the workplace, even if not a minority in the overall population, which is one potential meaning of "minorities in the workplace." At least that's what I gathered.
- organsnyder 8y ago
  In most workplaces, yes. For many fields (IT, executive-level, politics...), women are in the minority. For others (teaching, nursing...), men are in the minority. One big disparity is that most of the female-dominated fields tend to be lower-paying.
  - baud147258 8y ago
    I'm pretty sure that construction and truck-driving which are male-dominated are lower-paying than medical, which is female-dominated.
- dmm 8y ago
  Women make up 51% of the US population so clearly men are a minority. Ha! But really they probably mean a minority in a specific career or environment. For example, ~6% of truck drivers are female but only ~18% of primary and secondary teachers are male.
  - bb611 8y ago
    Men are 42% of teachers at the high school level: https://www.aaeteachers.org/index.php/blog/757-the-teacher-gender-gap https://www.aaeteachers.org/index.php/blog/757-the-teacher-g... School administrators are overwhelming male: http://aasa.org/SchoolAdministratorArticle.aspx?id=14492 http://aasa.org/SchoolAdministratorArticle.aspx?id=14492 I'm male, and taught K-5 special education for 2.5 years in my first job out of college. Few men join the profession, and many of them leave for better paying jobs, but I think a huge part of it is society's willingness to make raising children women's work. This is the "oh Daddy is babysitting!" phenomenon happening at the professional level.
  - chapium 8y ago
    Majority/minority are not strictly numbers in this context. Its more about opportunities whose limiting factor is age/race/gender etc.
    - collyw 8y ago
      I have yet to see decent evidence of limiting factor being race / gender where I work (in Europe). Age is a bit different as experience is closely tied to it.
- pavel_lishin 8y ago
  Don't forget people who don't easily conform to the binary gender breakdown, or people who may be in the middle of a transition.
- draw_down 8y ago
  Come on
- petercooper 8y ago
  I don't think women are equally represented in the upper echelons of politics or business. For example, only 29% of FTSE 100 board members are women - https://www.gov.uk/government/news/record-number-of-women-on-ftse-100-boards https://www.gov.uk/government/news/record-number-of-women-on... - so that makes them a minority in that context, no? It's a bit like how people of certain races may be considered "minorities" in our society, yet there could be billions of people of that race elsewhere in the world.
- will_brown 8y ago
  Under the law...one gender, while not a minority, is a protected class. Protected classes are qualified for special treatment in law and policy, particularly in the context of employment law.
  - astura 8y ago
    False, all genders (including male) are protected classes. "We didn't hire you because we think women make better caregivers" is just as illegal as "We didn't hire you because we think men make better middle managers." http://www1.eeoc.gov/eeoc/newsroom/release/5-2-18.cfm http://www1.eeoc.gov/eeoc/newsroom/release/5-2-18.cfm >The Children's Home, Inc., a Tampa nonprofit child care organization also known as the Children's Home Network, will pay $18,000 and provide training for its human resources and management employees to settle a sex discrimination lawsuit brought by the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC), the agency announced today. The EEOC's lawsuit charged that The Children's Home violated federal law when it refused to consider a male employee, Luis Vasquez, for a position in its maternity home program based on his sex. The suit further alleged that, Vasquez, after voicing his concerns about the company's refusal to consider him because he is a male, was prevented from applying to any other positions with the organization. https://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/newsroom/release/7-30-18b.cfm https://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/newsroom/release/7-30-18b.cfm >BALTIMORE - Park School of Baltimore Inc., a private school in Pikesville, Md., violated federal law when it refused to renew the employment contract of a male softball coach because it preferred female leadership, the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) charged in a lawsuit it announced today.
    - will_brown 8y ago
      You are correct, and I intended to reflect just the point gender is a protected class whether or not it is the/a minority gender in the context of the employers work place, industry as a whole and society at large. I suppose my comment was poorly worded and open to interpretation based on use of “one gender”. Of course there are exceptions to gender discrimination that does allow an employer to hire on the basis of sex (I.e. bonafide occupational qualification).
- astura 8y ago
  The statistical definition of "minority" isn't the same as the sociological definition of "minority." It's not a numerical measurement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minority_group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minority_group >"a group of people who, because of their physical or cultural characteristics, are singled out from the others in the society in which they live for differential and unequal treatment, and who therefore regard themselves as objects of collective discrimination"
- unstuckdev 8y ago
  Influence doesn't scale neatly with numbers. Also, people with nonbinary genders are helped by more equal binary representation since they're affected by the same problems that affect everyone regardless of identity in homogeneous environments. Even people in the statistical and social plurality are worse off with less variety. I've never seen a place made worse by keeping space for more perspectives.
ultraforce 8y ago
I am personally really lucky as I am pretty high functioning on the spectrum, I am studying to go into the tech industry and my parents are both very supportive and our family is upper middle class. That's just to say results may vary but I know there are multiple organizations that have come to do stuff at my university to set up job opportunities for those on the spectrum. They also function to inform students on the spectrum of the labour laws in Ontario and what that means in terms of helping people on the spectrum work as well as they can.

matkinz 8y ago

Disclosing a mental illness at work sounds like the worst idea you could ever have. I think it's better not to say anything and, if you wrong someone because of your illness, maybe tell that person in private and apologise. Unfortunately doing that makes it sound like an excuse. I'm not saying I have a better solution. Some people simply aren't apt for the real world. That's sad but it's the truth.

duggan 8y ago
> Some people simply aren't apt for the real world. That's sad but it's the truth. The same argument might have been made before women's suffrage, civil rights, laws around accessibility, etc. Beyond physical laws, "the real world" is what we make it.
- RankingMember 8y ago
  Bingo. The "real world" isn't some static thing set upon us; we shape it both actively (e.g. fighting for suffrage) and passively (sitting around being sad for ourselves).
blattimwind 8y ago
> Disclosing a mental illness at work sounds like the worst idea you could ever have. I dunno, I worked with a small number of people on the spectrum before and it wasn't like it required a lot of disclosure to get that.
- sidlls 8y ago
  Not all autists have the same collection or severity of symptoms, though, so it's not always obvious.
- loriverkutya 8y ago
  Because a lots of people on the spectrum learned (or forced to learn) how to hide the obvious behaviours and you just can't tell about them. After I was diagnosed and I invested some time into studying about autism, I realised that there is handful of colleges, who are most probably on the spectrum, but they have a really systematic approach on hiding shortcomings and using autistic traits to their advantage. Also I'm pretty sure I have collegues, who hide it so well, that nobody notices it at work.

callesgg 8y ago

I have found it best to not talk about any psychological pathology with anyone that does not understand it(no one really understands but some people understand that they don't understand). You can mention the symptoms, but don't label it, as soon as you insert the word autism, schizophrenia, depression people will apply their own preconceived deeply flawed interpretations of the problem.

draw_down 8y ago
Yeah, I just can’t imagine ever doing this. It seems like a terrible idea.
notyourday 8y ago
Disclosing anything not directly related to the work (i.e. health/future plans/dreams/difficulties/struggles) at work is a terrible idea. Every single person who thinks or advocates otherwise lives in a bubble -- betting on a correct outcome is no difficult than betting on rationality of the market. Remember, market can be irrational for longer than you can remain solvent.
- callesgg 8y ago
  That really depends on what you want out of your workplace. If all you want is money to fuel the rest of your life then i think you are on point. Personally i think life is to short/demanding, one needs to find an appropriate balance between work and personal life. I would rather have the people at work be friends than foes.
  - dasyatidprime 8y ago
    Did you mean “friends”, or am I not getting the pun?
    - callesgg 8y ago
      Yes i did mean friends:)

kraig911 8y ago

I'm having difficultly explaining my child has autism and need the time off all the time. Seriously people's expectations versus handling reality are very misaligned. Everyone constantly tells me I look sleepy and I've over heard from some that maybe I drink too much. They don't understand the time it takes to drive a kid to see 3 different specialists every other week, to drive to and from ABA therapy (which doesn't keep consistent hours or after care) they don't understand that she can't get into daycare (she's been kicked out by almost everywhere) and they definitely don't get why I'm like just a grain of sand away from losing it.

Humdeee 8y ago
For others to suggest you're drinking too much is both strange and absurd... it would be one of the last suggestions I were to brainstorm, but perhaps I'm naive in that regard.
0d311 8y ago
What you’re doing is worth it. Thank you for it.
ciaranm 8y ago
Hey, just want to say that I've watched my own parents handle this with my youngest brother (now 13). It's incredibly difficult and draining both physically and emotionally. I can't imagine how tough it is first hand as a parent.
- awakeasleep 8y ago
  Does it at least improve as they get older?
  - jasonlotito 8y ago
    Not the OP, but I can answer this. It depends. Autism is a spectrum, not a single condition. I have two children with autism, and they are different. The younger one is much more self-sufficient than the older one. Has it gotten easier? With the younger one? Yes. With the older one? No. The reasons are many. Both are still in diapers at 8 and 9 (soon to be 10), though the 8-year-old is getting potty trained. We are hopeful. The older one will probably never be out of diapers. The older one is also fairly big for his age. He always has been. He's also strong, does not know his own strength, and almost the height of my wife. She cannot lift him. Luckily, he's an affectionate child, so usually he just wants hugs or to sit on laps and be tickled. We have a stroller for him so we can take him places as he has low-tone muscles. Both are a flight risk (though the younger one is better now). The older one would wander into the road without a care. But it's hard. Really hard. And as they get older, there will be less and less support. At some point, we will not be able to properly care for him. However, society for the most part ignores this (despite the US doing a very good job compared to other nations). I love my children. I love that they are happy. They smile, they laugh, and that's all I want for them for their lives. Your priorities as a parent quickly changes when you learn this. Instead of hoping they have a good job and are successful, you reevaluate your hopes and aspirations for them and you. You realize that success isn't money or a startup, it's happiness. If my older child is happy for the rest of his life, how can I feel anything less than joy. I know people far more "successful" and far more "wealthy" and "doing what they love" and yet, they won't ever be as happy as my sons are. But it's hard. It's just hard because everything is harder than it should be. Everything takes longer, everything requires compromise, and not everything is available to you. The thing to remember is that my story is mine alone. Autism is a spectrum, and some will have it much easier. I love my two boys, and I would do anything for them, and all I want is for them to be happy. But it's hard.

Nasrudith 8y ago

This highlights some of the underlying irrationalities and insanities of "normal" society. The rational thing is low effort - not giving a damn unless it is somehow actually relevant. Yet management insists upon setting up additional talent filters for petty reasons and go with what flatters themselves above all else. We see things like the most social positions - managers having closed offices while giving open office plans and cubicles to the people with conventrative work.

sjg007 8y ago

Just as an FYI, autism is considered a disability so your employer has to make reasonable accommodations.

chimeracoder 8y ago
> Just as an FYI, autism is considered a disability so your employer has to make reasonable accommodations. Yes, but you have to disclose it in order for the ADA to apply in this case, and as the article explains, there are risks to disclosing as well.
- pseudalopex 8y ago
  You don't have to identify the underlying condition, but it may be awkward not to.
pmiller2 8y ago
It’s not really that simple. As another commenter says, you have to disclose before you can formally request accommodation. And, given the disadvantages of doing so, it’s often not a good idea to disclose until there are problems. By that point, the employer might not be very cooperative, and, even if they are, the process of requesting accommodation need not be made easy or explained well. And, if things still go south despite disclosure and attempts to request accommodation, the options for dealing with that are limited. Basically, you can make an EEOC complaint, and that’s it. You will not win any friends by doing so, either.
- sjg007 8y ago
  You can always file a lawsuit in addition to the EEOC complaint.
  - pmiller2 8y ago
    How is that supposed to make things better? You get all the disadvantages of filing with the EEOC, combined with all the stress and headaches of a lawsuit, and you get to be known as “that person who sued their employer.”

thesperg 8y ago

As someone with many Aspergers tendencies, I can tell you that most work, school and social environments are not great for us. While I think it is annoying to have Aspergers and be expected to act “normally,” I can see it would have many downsides for people to claim Aspergers status and bring this into regular office environments rather than develop coping strategies. It takes very, very little time for normal people to come to understand that I am “weird” and that I don’t provide expected responses to normal interactions. This year, my social weirdness has resulted in situations where I have gotten into fights with my coworkers who decided to attempt to bully me after they realized that I don’t have normal social skills. Unfortunately, the only techniques I have at my disposal are to make it very, very costly for people to bully me. I don’t have the ability to come up with proper responses to nasty comments in real time. When people say things to me I don’t like, it takes me a long time to articulate to myself what the problem is and why it made me mad and by then it is too late - That person now thinks I am an easy target and persists in their behavior. After reading and learning more about Aspergers I realize that this trait and many others are common. It was very helpful to learn from other people with this sort of condition and have developed coping strategies. I truly recommend doing a lot of research (not on the internet, I mean real books written by qualified people) if you suspect you have Aspergers. I tend think about something someone said or did to me for several days and even months. I seethe. Normal people tend to have situationally appropriate responses to small provocations, I develop anxiety about them. I manage a team of people and get paid over $330,000 / year. The idea that I still act and feel this way is insane and so immature but that’s how my brain works.

pmiller2 8y ago
What do you mean by “make it very, very costly for people to bully me?” That sounds to me like a strategy that can easily and frequently backfire.
- Sileni 8y ago
  [Not op] Salted earth. It does backfire, especially for that relationship. Usually if it goes to that extreme I'm not going to be able to save the relationship. But anyone who witnesses you burning a whole forest down to kill a squirrel tends to leave you be after that.

nugga 8y ago

Be aware that not every person has your best interest at heart and occasionally you may come across people who will abuse your weakness if you put yourself into a vulnerable position or paint yourself as an easy target. This may be a fringe issue but if you declare yourself to be socially inept/awkward, the sharks may come.

smelly1098 8y ago
Just curious. Is it pretty common for this to happen? I just got completely marginalized at my last workplace after they realized how socially inept I was and basically forced out the door. It also happened my job before that. Both were startups though. Wondering if that's pretty common or if I just had bad workplaces?
- nugga 8y ago
  Bullies will be bullies and it is not uncommon for people wanting to belong to a group or take sides at the expense of someone else. This sort of behaviour seems to be common especially during childhood in schools where someone will be 'it', if you know what I mean. Now don't take this the wrong way and think the world is against you and don't get bitter. These moments can be great moments to learn and grow up, and not every act that seems hostile is, or is at least deliberately so in full awareness of the perpetrator. Like it or not, the onus is also on you to fix your shit, whatever that may be, and try to understand these situations and what behaviour on your part may contribute to landing in them. I'm talking in general terms not knowing anyone's situation but mine.

csense 8y ago

I feel like it's an open secret that a huge percentage [1] of people in the tech industry are somewhere on the autism spectrum. Whether they've been formally diagnosed is another question. [1] I don't have numbers, but greater than 50% wouldn't be surprising.

wwwater 8y ago
Although I do agree that the percentage of people on the spectrum is higher in tech industry than in other industries, I think it's not higher than some 5-15%. When you ascribe to every introverted person being on the spectrum, you neglect the significance of it in people who really have it. It's like you're saying "yeah, we're all like this, so don't pretend you can't do this or that".
forgottenpass 8y ago
Noticing that someone doesn't choose to play all the reindeer games the same way I would play them is different from discovering that they're fundamentally incapable.

Pica_soO 8y ago

Disclose nothing, all the benefits of today, are not worth the risk with what humanity may be only ten years from now. What is disclosed cant be retaken. Look into a history book. Do fight all information collected, in fact produce a huge amount of wrong information, if your information ever leaked. Google and amazon would support Hitler today, if he where on the rise.

Ricardus 8y ago

There are jobs where I would absolutely never disclose being on the spectrum. Typical corporate 9-5 stuff. But my current gig is as a technical director at an art museum, and my aspie super power is technical stuff (as it relates to this) like lighting and sound. I have disclosed being on the spectrum to many people at work, and they didn't bat an eyelid. It's super mellow and SO not corporate. It's great. A perfect fit, really. A lot of is is me hiding in the booth, so I don't have to interact with people if I don't want to, but pre-show stuff ALWAYS requires me to interact with artists. Thankfully I can fake that part. Usually when I demonstrate competence at the task at hand they don't care about the rest.