4 ms·

Coincidentally there is a stable US Navy base in Naples. Don't turn Naples in another gentrified hellhole like you did with Lisbon.

thecodingmonk 8y ago
What happened in Lisbon?
- tonyedgecombe 8y ago
  Prosperity.
- privateprofile 8y ago
  Gentrification, mass tourism and special privilege for some people that can afford to buy entire buildings are causing major social issues: - https://www.euronews.com/2017/09/19/lisbon-s-tourism-magnet-is-kicking-out-local-residents https://www.euronews.com/2017/09/19/lisbon-s-tourism-magnet-... - http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/president-promulgates-temporary-suspension-on-evictions-as-rents-skyrocket-and-housing-stock-falls/46197 http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/president-promulgates-te... People using words like "prosperity" either don't live here, or especially don't work for a living here...
  - pjc50 8y ago
    This sounds like AirBnB effects again :(
    - tick_tock_tick 8y ago
      the major downside of globalization is you're no longer just dealing with demand from the local region
    - privateprofile 8y ago
      That, and the fact that the government has decided to keep giving away EU visas to people from geographies that are notorious for corruption (e.g. Brasil, Angola, China) in exchange for meager (500K€) real estate "investments" [1] [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/18/portugal-golden-visas-corrupt-brazilian-tycoon-among-applicants https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/18/portugal-golde...
inciampati 8y ago
The city will definitely resist. Its the most anarchic place I know of in the EU. Life here is as dirty and violent as it is lyrical, warm, and rich. It will be hard to truly gentrify this place. There are not too many gentrifier types I know who would be excited to live in a basso: https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basso_(Napoli) https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basso_(Napoli) But maybe that will change. The city would only benefit from more thinkers, technologists, scientists, and artists. You are right that the dream of attracting them may be the seed of a folly that will undermine the culture of the city, which is dazzlingly beautiful and shockingly ugly at the same time. There are some deep cultural problems here, but gentrification is only going to make these worse. They are related to being ruled by many invaders and monarchs basically since forever. The tech lords seem no different to me. Investment is good, but if it is driven through local channels it will only entrench the current system, whose most powerful participants, who are completely uninterested in improving the quality of life locally.
- toyg 8y ago
  > The city would only benefit from more thinkers, technologists, scientists, and artists. With the stranglehold the Catholic Church has on the city, this is not going to happen.
  - inciampati 8y ago
    All those abandoned churches are just hackerspaces in waiting.

thecodingmonk 8y ago

What happened in Lisbon?

tonyedgecombe 8y ago
Prosperity.
privateprofile 8y ago
Gentrification, mass tourism and special privilege for some people that can afford to buy entire buildings are causing major social issues: - https://www.euronews.com/2017/09/19/lisbon-s-tourism-magnet-is-kicking-out-local-residents https://www.euronews.com/2017/09/19/lisbon-s-tourism-magnet-... - http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/president-promulgates-temporary-suspension-on-evictions-as-rents-skyrocket-and-housing-stock-falls/46197 http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/president-promulgates-te... People using words like "prosperity" either don't live here, or especially don't work for a living here...
- pjc50 8y ago
  This sounds like AirBnB effects again :(
  - tick_tock_tick 8y ago
    the major downside of globalization is you're no longer just dealing with demand from the local region
  - privateprofile 8y ago
    That, and the fact that the government has decided to keep giving away EU visas to people from geographies that are notorious for corruption (e.g. Brasil, Angola, China) in exchange for meager (500K€) real estate "investments" [1] [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/18/portugal-golden-visas-corrupt-brazilian-tycoon-among-applicants https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/18/portugal-golde...

inciampati 8y ago

The city will definitely resist. Its the most anarchic place I know of in the EU. Life here is as dirty and violent as it is lyrical, warm, and rich. It will be hard to truly gentrify this place. There are not too many gentrifier types I know who would be excited to live in a basso: https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basso_(Napoli) https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basso_(Napoli) But maybe that will change. The city would only benefit from more thinkers, technologists, scientists, and artists. You are right that the dream of attracting them may be the seed of a folly that will undermine the culture of the city, which is dazzlingly beautiful and shockingly ugly at the same time. There are some deep cultural problems here, but gentrification is only going to make these worse. They are related to being ruled by many invaders and monarchs basically since forever. The tech lords seem no different to me. Investment is good, but if it is driven through local channels it will only entrench the current system, whose most powerful participants, who are completely uninterested in improving the quality of life locally.

toyg 8y ago
> The city would only benefit from more thinkers, technologists, scientists, and artists. With the stranglehold the Catholic Church has on the city, this is not going to happen.
- inciampati 8y ago
  All those abandoned churches are just hackerspaces in waiting.