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I started a consumer robotics company with no more than a software and hobbyist robotics background. The grand plan was to sell furry robot pets and we got as f

I started a consumer robotics company with no more than a software and hobbyist robotics background. The grand plan was to sell furry robot pets and we got as far as the prototype stage and a demo at Maker Faire. After that we hit a huge wall. There is essentially no path from hobbyist, off the shelf components to a real product. After that company died I joined a real robotics startup with some seriously talented founders. They had already built out several robots and had the core skills (mechanical engineering, software engineering, electrical eng, and controls) to design and build a working robot. More importantly though they knew the process to make a robot real which involves personal contacts at custom component suppliers, the right outfit to do engineering review, how to raise enough money to get the kind of runway hardware needs. And on and on. Moral of the story, you can't fake hardware. Get experienced people on board from day one or your going to flounder and most likely die.

WheelsAtLarge 8y ago
Just a note on this: Prototypes can be enough to get a company going. Engineers/Makers think that the product is the most important part of starting a company. It's not. Selling your vision to investors and customers is. Once you have a business plan that's funded, you can refine your product by hiring consultants that will help you with production. Once you have a product then you can get customers to refine the product further. Why is bottled water a billion dollar business in the U.S. when the U.S. has the safest drinking water in the world? I am very sure it's not the product. If you can't sell, define your vision and prototype and find someone to sell them for you. Salespeople are viewed as BS'ers by engineers but without them, companies can never succeed.
- keithnz 8y ago
  what makes you think the US has the safest drinking water in the world? Can't see it in any of the top 10 (or 20) via google....
  - WheelsAtLarge 8y ago
    The population of the U.S. is over 300 mil. How many people die or get sick every year because of our drinking water? It's got to be very small if any, otherwise, we would hear about it constantly until it was fixed. But let's say it is the worst in the world. Bottled water is not the best way to fix the problem. A water filter would be much better in terms of cost per gallon and quality. Just by you asking the question, highlights how well sales and marketing have worked when it comes to bottled water.
    - artwr 8y ago
      I am not sure how the people at Hinckley, or more recently at Flint would take that assertion. Just because tracking causality of morbidity to drinking water can be a difficult task does not mean it has no contribution to health issues.
    - monadgonad 8y ago
      > The population of the U.S. is over 300 mil. How many people die or get sick every year because of our drinking water? It's got to be very small if any All that means is “it’s very safe”. To call it “the safest in the world” is just blind patriotism. There might be long-term health effects caused by but difficult to attribute to water that are more prevalent in the US than other countries, for all we know. > Just by you asking the question, highlights how well sales and marketing have worked when it comes to bottled water. I’m not the person who asked, but no it doesn’t! All it highlights is how hyperbolic your statement was. It wasn’t an argument for or against bottled water at all.
- nicodjimenez 8y ago
  I totally agree with this, but you're missing selling the vision to employees in addition to investors and customers. Phase 1: sell the promise. Phase 2: fulfill the promise.
  - WheelsAtLarge 8y ago
    Very true...
- shanghaiaway 8y ago
  >Why is bottled water a billion dollar business in the U.S. when the U.S. has the safest drinking water in the world? I am very sure it's not the product. The product of bottled water is availability - being able to purchase anywhere and to bring it with you.
oceanman888 8y ago
I kind of went through the same path as you and I am hooked. Are you building what you wanted to at this robot company? Can you describe the product vaguely?
oceanman888 8y ago
I agree with you that hands-on experience with manufacturing is crucial for getting your fist batch out. However,what stopped you from joining one of those hardware accelerators in shenzhen?
ragebol 8y ago
I worked at a small robotics company in the Netherlands, technical university spinoff. We did tests in care homes for elderly and disabled people and we actually had clients that wanted to use our robots and were very positive about them. But we were just too early. The robot didn't even need to be very autonomous, shared autonomy was part of the plan (fake it till you make it and honest about it :-) ). I controlled the robot from the other side of the (small) country to give people their teddy bears and TV remotes etc. Problem was that we tried to do our hardware completely by ourselves, whereas nowadays there are several options for mobile manipulator robots that look good enough to put in a home. We spent more time getting the robot to work than on useful applications (we had dozens of activities of daily live a robot could support). And even the getting our robot to work could be done more efficiency (in hindsight). We should have used e.g. an EtherCAT motor controller instead of writing of doing it all ourselves on a micro-controller. We didn't progress enough quickly enough for our investors and subsidizers and ran out of money. A another great lesson was this though: when you hear talk about robots in care, the complaint I get a lot is that that is sad for the clients, because they don't get someone to talk to (but a robot) and they will get lonely. That turns out not entirely the case. A lot of disabled clients told me they don't want to talk to the care-givers all that much, they just want their drink/toilet break/pen they dropped etc. They have friends and family and don't feel lonely. The complaint about loneliness is coming from the care-givers. For elderly people, it may be different though, but I found that very interesting.
- oceanman888 8y ago
  A lot hardware startup that started from zero made a first product that can barely called a MVP (Gopro first product was a camera shell, DJI first product was flight controller) do you think such ultra minimalist product(yet very meaningful to understand customer) could have been done looking back now?
  - ragebol 8y ago
    The problem with a lot of robots in care is that if you pick 1 task, the MVP to solve that problem doesn't even have to be a robot. To automate 2 tasks, you will need 2 MVPs and this doesn't really scale. A single robot can do a lot of different things, all with the same hardware that gets used a lot, where as 1-funtion MVPs only get very infrequent use. But it does require to build a robot that can do a lot of things, which is not a minimal thing to do. Things get expensive and complex when robot arms get involved, which do give you lots of capabilities in return. Arms and mobility make the difference between a smart speaker like Alexa and a robot.

WheelsAtLarge 8y ago

Just a note on this: Prototypes can be enough to get a company going. Engineers/Makers think that the product is the most important part of starting a company. It's not. Selling your vision to investors and customers is. Once you have a business plan that's funded, you can refine your product by hiring consultants that will help you with production. Once you have a product then you can get customers to refine the product further. Why is bottled water a billion dollar business in the U.S. when the U.S. has the safest drinking water in the world? I am very sure it's not the product. If you can't sell, define your vision and prototype and find someone to sell them for you. Salespeople are viewed as BS'ers by engineers but without them, companies can never succeed.

keithnz 8y ago
what makes you think the US has the safest drinking water in the world? Can't see it in any of the top 10 (or 20) via google....
- WheelsAtLarge 8y ago
  The population of the U.S. is over 300 mil. How many people die or get sick every year because of our drinking water? It's got to be very small if any, otherwise, we would hear about it constantly until it was fixed. But let's say it is the worst in the world. Bottled water is not the best way to fix the problem. A water filter would be much better in terms of cost per gallon and quality. Just by you asking the question, highlights how well sales and marketing have worked when it comes to bottled water.
  - artwr 8y ago
    I am not sure how the people at Hinckley, or more recently at Flint would take that assertion. Just because tracking causality of morbidity to drinking water can be a difficult task does not mean it has no contribution to health issues.
  - monadgonad 8y ago
    > The population of the U.S. is over 300 mil. How many people die or get sick every year because of our drinking water? It's got to be very small if any All that means is “it’s very safe”. To call it “the safest in the world” is just blind patriotism. There might be long-term health effects caused by but difficult to attribute to water that are more prevalent in the US than other countries, for all we know. > Just by you asking the question, highlights how well sales and marketing have worked when it comes to bottled water. I’m not the person who asked, but no it doesn’t! All it highlights is how hyperbolic your statement was. It wasn’t an argument for or against bottled water at all.
nicodjimenez 8y ago
I totally agree with this, but you're missing selling the vision to employees in addition to investors and customers. Phase 1: sell the promise. Phase 2: fulfill the promise.
- WheelsAtLarge 8y ago
  Very true...
shanghaiaway 8y ago
>Why is bottled water a billion dollar business in the U.S. when the U.S. has the safest drinking water in the world? I am very sure it's not the product. The product of bottled water is availability - being able to purchase anywhere and to bring it with you.

oceanman888 8y ago

I kind of went through the same path as you and I am hooked. Are you building what you wanted to at this robot company? Can you describe the product vaguely?

oceanman888 8y ago

I agree with you that hands-on experience with manufacturing is crucial for getting your fist batch out. However,what stopped you from joining one of those hardware accelerators in shenzhen?

ragebol 8y ago

I worked at a small robotics company in the Netherlands, technical university spinoff. We did tests in care homes for elderly and disabled people and we actually had clients that wanted to use our robots and were very positive about them. But we were just too early. The robot didn't even need to be very autonomous, shared autonomy was part of the plan (fake it till you make it and honest about it :-) ). I controlled the robot from the other side of the (small) country to give people their teddy bears and TV remotes etc. Problem was that we tried to do our hardware completely by ourselves, whereas nowadays there are several options for mobile manipulator robots that look good enough to put in a home. We spent more time getting the robot to work than on useful applications (we had dozens of activities of daily live a robot could support). And even the getting our robot to work could be done more efficiency (in hindsight). We should have used e.g. an EtherCAT motor controller instead of writing of doing it all ourselves on a micro-controller. We didn't progress enough quickly enough for our investors and subsidizers and ran out of money. A another great lesson was this though: when you hear talk about robots in care, the complaint I get a lot is that that is sad for the clients, because they don't get someone to talk to (but a robot) and they will get lonely. That turns out not entirely the case. A lot of disabled clients told me they don't want to talk to the care-givers all that much, they just want their drink/toilet break/pen they dropped etc. They have friends and family and don't feel lonely. The complaint about loneliness is coming from the care-givers. For elderly people, it may be different though, but I found that very interesting.

oceanman888 8y ago
A lot hardware startup that started from zero made a first product that can barely called a MVP (Gopro first product was a camera shell, DJI first product was flight controller) do you think such ultra minimalist product(yet very meaningful to understand customer) could have been done looking back now?
- ragebol 8y ago
  The problem with a lot of robots in care is that if you pick 1 task, the MVP to solve that problem doesn't even have to be a robot. To automate 2 tasks, you will need 2 MVPs and this doesn't really scale. A single robot can do a lot of different things, all with the same hardware that gets used a lot, where as 1-funtion MVPs only get very infrequent use. But it does require to build a robot that can do a lot of things, which is not a minimal thing to do. Things get expensive and complex when robot arms get involved, which do give you lots of capabilities in return. Arms and mobility make the difference between a smart speaker like Alexa and a robot.