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CEO would disappear for months at a time, with the promise of returning with capital. We never really knew where he went, and he wouldn’t let anyone else talk

CEO would disappear for months at a time, with the promise of returning with capital. We never really knew where he went, and he wouldn’t let anyone else talk to investors (including me, who was CTO). Eventually he stopped paying us, but promised that the money was just tied up in the parent company set up in the caymans. After 2 months of not paying myself or any other employees, the COO and I drainked the remainder of the US account and paid out as much of what was owed as we could to the employees before helping them find jobs elsewhere. I didn’t get any of the money I was owed and was facing pretty bad debt, but the experience was enough of a resume boost that I didn’t have a problem making it up in my signing bonus. What I learned is that a title doesn’t grant you any control, and that if someone can’t be transparent with their inner circle of friends and colleagues (in this case cofounders), then they have no business leading a company. Also leaned to not fuck with the cartels.

JamesCoyne 8y ago
Why shouldn't a startup fuck with the cartels?
- thanatos_dem 8y ago
  Fucking with cartels is expensive and stressful. Armored cars and armed security are nice and all, but being in a situation that necessitates riding in an armored car and armed security detail is not really fun.
  - yashap 8y ago
    Legal marijuana business?
    - cannabisceo 8y ago
      The legal guys are more gangster than the cowboys who made up the industry just a few years ago.
- koolba 8y ago
  Because if you don’t move fast enough they’ll break your things.
  - maephisto 8y ago
    That's not just a simple comment, it's art, kind sir! LOL
- me_eu 8y ago
  In Romania we ain't Estebans but Michails and we don't do weed but forests. Nevertheless you don't wanna face a Michail alone in one of our forests.
shawn 8y ago
Also leaned to not fuck with the cartels. Oh come on, you can’t leave us hanging like that! This is the beginning of the best story in the thread. How did the cartel connection form? Was your contact named Estefan? Did he have a mild accent and project an aura of power? “Bad decisions make good stories!”
- thanatos_dem 8y ago
  Luckily, nothing too exciting happened. We were operating in the financial tech space in Mexico, trying to make lending less comically predatory (a standard small business loan in Mexico can have close to the same interest rate as a payday loan in the US). With that goal in mind, we were targeting areas in Mexico that needed the most help. Cities with a decent small business sector, looking to grow, and having difficulty doing so. Juarez was a perfect fit, especially given that a lot of citizens have been across the border and can see how much better things can be. My parents were not amused. Then the movie Sicario came out soon after, and they were somehow less amused. But I got to ride around in armored vehicles with a security detail, so that was fun. Really my "learned not to fuck with the cartels" lesson came from our market research. This may surprise you, but the banks in Mexico are... sketchy. Well, not all of them, but definitely a few. In particular, we were in a competing market as Banco Azteca. It appears to have since been removed, but at the time, the Banco Azteca wikipedia page described it as having "a uniquely effective debt collection system" or something like that. Yeah, what they actually have is a motorcycle gang. They give you a loan with massive, often times impossible to pay off interest rates, and if you don't pay them back, motorcycle dudes with bats show up to collect, or take enough of your property to make up the difference.
  - dragandj 8y ago
    Shouldn't that be a common knowledge in the area and work out as their competitive disadvantage? Provided that there are at least some competitors that are better for the customer?
    - justaguyhere 8y ago
make3 8y ago
"Also learned not to fuck with the cartels" you seriously had to learn this
- make3 8y ago
  I don't get why this comment is so down voted. Do you guys all find the idea that collaborating with the mafia may be a bad idea so hard to figure out?
  - gvb 8y ago
    It's dismissive and added nothing to the conversation. (Not a down-voter FWIW.)
jackgolding 8y ago
> What I learned is that a title doesn’t grant you any control Is this just for anything other than CEO? Or are they always held to the board/investors.
- thanatos_dem 8y ago
  In general it's true for all positions. A CEO should be fire-able for the board to keep them accountable. We never got to the size where we had a board tho, so we didn't have anyone to appeal to apart from the investors directly, and as I mentioned, the CEO kept us isolated from them. The bigger problem I had with lack of control was when things started to go south. The CEO was never around, so I was the "boss" in the office every day, being the technical and cultural leader of the dev team, who came to be close friends. Once the money stopped coming in, it was really hard emotionally to be the person who needed to convey that to the rest of the company, but without having any real control needed to get them money or real answers. The CEO came from a very wealthy family, and never had to worry about money. Myself, and most of the employees weren't so lucky, and were pretty new out of college, so didn't have a pile of savings to fall back on. I am not even that upset about never seeing that pay I was owed, it was more just emotionally draining to be seen as an authority figure, but to have absolutely no ability to exact change or get answers when they mattered most.

JamesCoyne 8y ago

Why shouldn't a startup fuck with the cartels?

thanatos_dem 8y ago
Fucking with cartels is expensive and stressful. Armored cars and armed security are nice and all, but being in a situation that necessitates riding in an armored car and armed security detail is not really fun.
- yashap 8y ago
  Legal marijuana business?
  - cannabisceo 8y ago
    The legal guys are more gangster than the cowboys who made up the industry just a few years ago.
koolba 8y ago
Because if you don’t move fast enough they’ll break your things.
- maephisto 8y ago
  That's not just a simple comment, it's art, kind sir! LOL
me_eu 8y ago
In Romania we ain't Estebans but Michails and we don't do weed but forests. Nevertheless you don't wanna face a Michail alone in one of our forests.

shawn 8y ago

Also leaned to not fuck with the cartels. Oh come on, you can’t leave us hanging like that! This is the beginning of the best story in the thread. How did the cartel connection form? Was your contact named Estefan? Did he have a mild accent and project an aura of power? “Bad decisions make good stories!”

thanatos_dem 8y ago
Luckily, nothing too exciting happened. We were operating in the financial tech space in Mexico, trying to make lending less comically predatory (a standard small business loan in Mexico can have close to the same interest rate as a payday loan in the US). With that goal in mind, we were targeting areas in Mexico that needed the most help. Cities with a decent small business sector, looking to grow, and having difficulty doing so. Juarez was a perfect fit, especially given that a lot of citizens have been across the border and can see how much better things can be. My parents were not amused. Then the movie Sicario came out soon after, and they were somehow less amused. But I got to ride around in armored vehicles with a security detail, so that was fun. Really my "learned not to fuck with the cartels" lesson came from our market research. This may surprise you, but the banks in Mexico are... sketchy. Well, not all of them, but definitely a few. In particular, we were in a competing market as Banco Azteca. It appears to have since been removed, but at the time, the Banco Azteca wikipedia page described it as having "a uniquely effective debt collection system" or something like that. Yeah, what they actually have is a motorcycle gang. They give you a loan with massive, often times impossible to pay off interest rates, and if you don't pay them back, motorcycle dudes with bats show up to collect, or take enough of your property to make up the difference.
- dragandj 8y ago
  Shouldn't that be a common knowledge in the area and work out as their competitive disadvantage? Provided that there are at least some competitors that are better for the customer?
  - justaguyhere 8y ago

make3 8y ago

"Also learned not to fuck with the cartels" you seriously had to learn this

make3 8y ago
I don't get why this comment is so down voted. Do you guys all find the idea that collaborating with the mafia may be a bad idea so hard to figure out?
- gvb 8y ago
  It's dismissive and added nothing to the conversation. (Not a down-voter FWIW.)

jackgolding 8y ago

> What I learned is that a title doesn’t grant you any control Is this just for anything other than CEO? Or are they always held to the board/investors.

thanatos_dem 8y ago
In general it's true for all positions. A CEO should be fire-able for the board to keep them accountable. We never got to the size where we had a board tho, so we didn't have anyone to appeal to apart from the investors directly, and as I mentioned, the CEO kept us isolated from them. The bigger problem I had with lack of control was when things started to go south. The CEO was never around, so I was the "boss" in the office every day, being the technical and cultural leader of the dev team, who came to be close friends. Once the money stopped coming in, it was really hard emotionally to be the person who needed to convey that to the rest of the company, but without having any real control needed to get them money or real answers. The CEO came from a very wealthy family, and never had to worry about money. Myself, and most of the employees weren't so lucky, and were pretty new out of college, so didn't have a pile of savings to fall back on. I am not even that upset about never seeing that pay I was owed, it was more just emotionally draining to be seen as an authority figure, but to have absolutely no ability to exact change or get answers when they mattered most.