6 ms·

Having lived in Japan that doesn't use DST, it really sucks. In the summer, it starts getting light just after 4am but then it's dark by 7:30pm. The daylight

by mattm 8y ago

Having lived in Japan that doesn't use DST, it really sucks. In the summer, it starts getting light just after 4am but then it's dark by 7:30pm. The daylight time is wasted.

jac_no_k 8y ago
Ex-pat in Japan, Tokyo area here. Not having to change clocks is nice. Pressure companies / employers to have flex time to allow earlier starts and earlier leaves. Even though Japan culture tends to lag 10 to 15 years behind, it does change. Now if the rest of the world (London / New York) would stop shifting clocks around on different dates, it would make global synch ups easier to handle.
- wpietri 8y ago
  How many clocks do people really have to change these days? Everybody has a phone in their pocket that magically has the right time.
  - Osiris 8y ago
    Everytime the government changes the rules, people have to modify the firmware of basically any device with a clock, the people have to go around updating those (especially ones that don't have any auto update mechanism). Source: I'm a software engineer and I had too update hundreds of copy machines manually a few years ago.
    - __david__ 8y ago
      I replaced all the wall clocks in my house with ones that set themselves from the NIST radio broadcast. My computers (and presumably phone) are all ntp based. None of those require firmware updates. It's quite nice to never mess with the clocks and have everything just be correct.
      - isostatic 8y ago
        NTP gives you accurate time in UTC. It doesn't tell you how many hours you're offset from UTC. Databases like tzdata do that, and they have half a dozen updates every year.
        deaps 8y ago
        Well yeah, but then you tell your devices that you're UTC-4, and when it receives the NTP update, it just automatically subtracts 4 hours. Or, like in the case of most phones, GPS-enabled devices know what time zone you're currently in, and then automatically adjust accordingly.
        isostatic 8y ago
        Your device from 2005 that hasn't received a firmware update will show the wrong time if you're in New York. GPS does not contain your current timezone, like NTP it gives out UTC. The reason your phone (that's set to use "New York" as a timezone) knows to change the UTC offset from -4 to 05 on the first Sunday of November is because it has received a firmware update at some point since 2006. A standalone device from before 2006 can not know that the spring forward/fall back dates in the US changed, unless it's updated. Your statement "None of those require firmware updates. It's quite nice to never mess with the clocks and have everything just be correct" seems naive at best.
        deaps 8y ago
        > The reason your phone (that's set to use "New York" as a timezone) knows to change the UTC offset from -4 to 05 on the first Sunday of November is because it has received a firmware update at some point since 2006. A standalone device from before 2006 can not know that the spring forward/fall back dates in the US changed, unless it's updated. Fair enough, good point - I didn't think about that. > Your statement "None of those require firmware updates. It's quite nice to never mess with the clocks and have everything just be correct" seems naive at best. I never said that, possibly you're replying to a different person than intended.
    - wpietri 8y ago
      Right. I'm not asking about changing rules. I'm asking about the burden of keeping the current daylight savings rules. The person I was responding to said "not having to change clocks is nice". I live in a daylight savings region and I already don't change any clocks.
- eloisant 8y ago
  Not having to change clocks is nice, but having a little offset over the sun time is good. I lived in Japan as a student, and when you wake up at noon to get only 4 hours of daylight it's really depressing, and feels like you've wasted your whole day in bed. Anyway, prepare to adjust your watch twice a year! https://www.ft.com/content/4db264b4-a764-11e8-8ecf-a7ae1beff35b https://www.ft.com/content/4db264b4-a764-11e8-8ecf-a7ae1beff...
  - dwighttk 8y ago
    “...wake up at noon ... feels like you've wasted your whole day in bed.” Well it’s half true
  - Sean1708 8y ago
    > when you wake up at noon to get only 4 hours of daylight it's really depressing That's just a normal winter to some people.
glandium 8y ago
The problem is not so much the lack of DST, but the fact that solar noon is around 11:30am in Tokyo, compared to around 12pm in SF in winter time, and 1pm in summer time.
freetime2 8y ago
The daylight is only "wasted" because you are sleeping through it. Try waking up earlier in the summer months to take advantage of it. I find that I don't even need an alarm to wake up at 4:30 AM when the sun is already up. And early morning is the best time to get out for some exercise in the hot, humid Japanese summers. Anyway - I don't really think it matters too much whether it gets light at 4:00 AM in the peak of summer or 5:00 AM. People can adapt their schedules to take advantage of the daylight at the beginning or end of their day as needed. What really sucks is having your schedule abruptly changed twice a year for DST - something which people aren't really adapted to handle.
- tempestn 8y ago
  Yes, except that everyone else doesn't shift their schedules to accommodate you. Many people still need to work 9-5. (Or 8-8 or something in Japan...) Also, generally social events around dinner happen at something like 7pm. After dinner events might be at 8 or 9. You're likely to miss out on a lot if you're going to bed at 8 so you can get up at 4.
  - tomjakubowski 8y ago
    All of that would apply more or less equally for a 5:30 sunrise with DST, wouldn't it? You'll miss out on a lot going to bed at 9 to get up at 5, etc.
    - carlmr 8y ago
      Yeah, ideally you'd shift to 7am sunrise and 10:30pm sundown, that would be ideal in terms of social events and waking time.
    - tempestn 8y ago
      I wouldn't get up at 5. I'd continue to get up around 8, but I would miss three hours of daylight instead of four.
  - freetime2 8y ago
    I’ve gotten friends out early in the morning for outdoor social events like golf, hiking, camping, etc. I play on a softball team that has games at 6 am. Heck, even some of my first dates with my wife were early in the morning. So I disagree that social events need be limited to dinner and drinks in the evening. Oh and I still go out for dinner and drinks too... just not every day and when I do I usually sleep in a bit the next day. I really don’t understand the resistance to waking up a bit earlier in summer. Btw I don’t even consider myself a morning person really, it’s just that when I moved to a place that gets light early in the morning I naturally started waking up earlier.
rtpg 8y ago
Totally agree. Japan sticks to a 9-5 but its clocks would work much better in a 7-3 environment. Totally misplaced

by mattm 8y ago

Having lived in Japan that doesn't use DST, it really sucks. In the summer, it starts getting light just after 4am but then it's dark by 7:30pm. The daylight time is wasted.

jac_no_k 8y ago

Ex-pat in Japan, Tokyo area here. Not having to change clocks is nice. Pressure companies / employers to have flex time to allow earlier starts and earlier leaves. Even though Japan culture tends to lag 10 to 15 years behind, it does change. Now if the rest of the world (London / New York) would stop shifting clocks around on different dates, it would make global synch ups easier to handle.

wpietri 8y ago
How many clocks do people really have to change these days? Everybody has a phone in their pocket that magically has the right time.
- Osiris 8y ago
  Everytime the government changes the rules, people have to modify the firmware of basically any device with a clock, the people have to go around updating those (especially ones that don't have any auto update mechanism). Source: I'm a software engineer and I had too update hundreds of copy machines manually a few years ago.
  - __david__ 8y ago
    I replaced all the wall clocks in my house with ones that set themselves from the NIST radio broadcast. My computers (and presumably phone) are all ntp based. None of those require firmware updates. It's quite nice to never mess with the clocks and have everything just be correct.
    - isostatic 8y ago
      NTP gives you accurate time in UTC. It doesn't tell you how many hours you're offset from UTC. Databases like tzdata do that, and they have half a dozen updates every year.
      - deaps 8y ago
        Well yeah, but then you tell your devices that you're UTC-4, and when it receives the NTP update, it just automatically subtracts 4 hours. Or, like in the case of most phones, GPS-enabled devices know what time zone you're currently in, and then automatically adjust accordingly.
        isostatic 8y ago
        Your device from 2005 that hasn't received a firmware update will show the wrong time if you're in New York. GPS does not contain your current timezone, like NTP it gives out UTC. The reason your phone (that's set to use "New York" as a timezone) knows to change the UTC offset from -4 to 05 on the first Sunday of November is because it has received a firmware update at some point since 2006. A standalone device from before 2006 can not know that the spring forward/fall back dates in the US changed, unless it's updated. Your statement "None of those require firmware updates. It's quite nice to never mess with the clocks and have everything just be correct" seems naive at best.
        deaps 8y ago
        > The reason your phone (that's set to use "New York" as a timezone) knows to change the UTC offset from -4 to 05 on the first Sunday of November is because it has received a firmware update at some point since 2006. A standalone device from before 2006 can not know that the spring forward/fall back dates in the US changed, unless it's updated. Fair enough, good point - I didn't think about that. > Your statement "None of those require firmware updates. It's quite nice to never mess with the clocks and have everything just be correct" seems naive at best. I never said that, possibly you're replying to a different person than intended.
  - wpietri 8y ago
    Right. I'm not asking about changing rules. I'm asking about the burden of keeping the current daylight savings rules. The person I was responding to said "not having to change clocks is nice". I live in a daylight savings region and I already don't change any clocks.
eloisant 8y ago
Not having to change clocks is nice, but having a little offset over the sun time is good. I lived in Japan as a student, and when you wake up at noon to get only 4 hours of daylight it's really depressing, and feels like you've wasted your whole day in bed. Anyway, prepare to adjust your watch twice a year! https://www.ft.com/content/4db264b4-a764-11e8-8ecf-a7ae1beff35b https://www.ft.com/content/4db264b4-a764-11e8-8ecf-a7ae1beff...
- dwighttk 8y ago
  “...wake up at noon ... feels like you've wasted your whole day in bed.” Well it’s half true
- Sean1708 8y ago
  > when you wake up at noon to get only 4 hours of daylight it's really depressing That's just a normal winter to some people.

glandium 8y ago

The problem is not so much the lack of DST, but the fact that solar noon is around 11:30am in Tokyo, compared to around 12pm in SF in winter time, and 1pm in summer time.

freetime2 8y ago

The daylight is only "wasted" because you are sleeping through it. Try waking up earlier in the summer months to take advantage of it. I find that I don't even need an alarm to wake up at 4:30 AM when the sun is already up. And early morning is the best time to get out for some exercise in the hot, humid Japanese summers. Anyway - I don't really think it matters too much whether it gets light at 4:00 AM in the peak of summer or 5:00 AM. People can adapt their schedules to take advantage of the daylight at the beginning or end of their day as needed. What really sucks is having your schedule abruptly changed twice a year for DST - something which people aren't really adapted to handle.

tempestn 8y ago
Yes, except that everyone else doesn't shift their schedules to accommodate you. Many people still need to work 9-5. (Or 8-8 or something in Japan...) Also, generally social events around dinner happen at something like 7pm. After dinner events might be at 8 or 9. You're likely to miss out on a lot if you're going to bed at 8 so you can get up at 4.
- tomjakubowski 8y ago
  All of that would apply more or less equally for a 5:30 sunrise with DST, wouldn't it? You'll miss out on a lot going to bed at 9 to get up at 5, etc.
  - carlmr 8y ago
    Yeah, ideally you'd shift to 7am sunrise and 10:30pm sundown, that would be ideal in terms of social events and waking time.
  - tempestn 8y ago
    I wouldn't get up at 5. I'd continue to get up around 8, but I would miss three hours of daylight instead of four.
- freetime2 8y ago
  I’ve gotten friends out early in the morning for outdoor social events like golf, hiking, camping, etc. I play on a softball team that has games at 6 am. Heck, even some of my first dates with my wife were early in the morning. So I disagree that social events need be limited to dinner and drinks in the evening. Oh and I still go out for dinner and drinks too... just not every day and when I do I usually sleep in a bit the next day. I really don’t understand the resistance to waking up a bit earlier in summer. Btw I don’t even consider myself a morning person really, it’s just that when I moved to a place that gets light early in the morning I naturally started waking up earlier.

rtpg 8y ago

Totally agree. Japan sticks to a 9-5 but its clocks would work much better in a 7-3 environment. Totally misplaced