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The one glimmer of hope that I have is that I am literally incapable of driving in the snow without substantial software assistance, and that's true for literal

The one glimmer of hope that I have is that I am literally incapable of driving in the snow without substantial software assistance, and that's true for literally every other human I know.

Retra 8y ago
Some basic knowledge of traction and momentum go a long way. Your car will generally go the way it is heading, as far as it can slide. Every time I see people lose control in the snow and ice, it is because they're driving with their brakes and not their momentum.
bsagdiyev 8y ago
You and the people you know may just not be suited for driving in those conditions. Mountain areas in California have plenty of people capable driving in some serious snow with older cars, ABS is usually the only thing they have, no traction control or other software help. Anecdotal, of course, but so is your comment.
- throwawayjava 8y ago
  > You and the people you know may just not be suited for driving in those conditions ...northern Wisconsin gets its fair share of snow. > ABS is usually the only thing they have I think you've just agreed with me. ABS and TCS are exactly the systems I was referring to, and most of today's drivers have never encountered a car that doesn't at least have ABS. I've driven a car without ABS or TCS in the snow. It's extremely difficult. Kind of similar to driving a stick shift for the first time. The idea is simple, but getting it into muscle memory enough that you're not constantly making mistakes is non-trivial.
jerkstate 8y ago
I learned to drive on snow and ice in the midwest in a stick-shift car from the '70s.. of course, I would rather have traction control and ABS, but it can certainly be done (and it was for many years before the modern conveniences)
- throwawayjava 8y ago
  Sure, people could learn how to drive without software assistance. Just like people could learn how to drive a stick shift. But most people (at least in the US) don't know how to drive in a stick shift or how to navigate snow without ABS and TCS.
dsfyu404ed 8y ago
How did people survive before ABS and traction control? It's not that bad. You just dial back your risk taking to reflect the situation.
- loeg 8y ago
  Frankly, many of them didn't. Highway deaths have come down a lot since the invention of ABS.
  - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
    People not driving drunk less and wearing seat belts more has a heck of a lot more do with it.
    - loeg 8y ago
      I don't disagree. Tons of factors contribute to gradually making highways safer over time.
rjsw 8y ago
Is that with proper winter tyres or not ? With good tyres you can drive in pretty bad conditions.
- graycat 8y ago
  Snow tires are a big help for getting going. They are much less help for stopping.
  - Hamuko 8y ago
    This is so incorrect it hurts.
    - graycat 8y ago
      My point is clear if just consider a little of how snow tires work: The main point is the big bumps in the tread. These big bumps permit spinning drive wheels to dig down in the snow to find some traction, maybe the hard surface below. This digging down has the bumps grab a lot of snow and throw it back and out of the way and let the tires get down, through the snow into some traction. Ordinary tires just spin and throw far too little snow. Works great. But in stopping, there is no such "spinning" or "digging". Instead, all the snow tires can do is roll or slide. So, snow tires help a lot in going but not much in stopping. Typically get into winter car wrecks from not stopping, not from not going. So, once snow tires have you going, be darned careful about stopping -- the risk is not stopping, and snow tires aren't much help because the lugs don't get a chance to dig and throw snow.
      - rjsw 8y ago
        Modern snow tyres don't have big bumps in the tread.
        graycat 8y ago
        The ones on my car do.
      - 8y ago
Sir_Vival 8y ago
I think everyone should learn how to drive in the snow without ABS and the like - just like I did, and I'm 30. The car was $400, front heavy, and had rear wheel drive Learning when you should be applying gas, when you should simply take your foot off, and when you should brake (rarely!) in icy conditions is hard to learn otherwise.

The one glimmer of hope that I have is that I am literally incapable of driving in the snow without substantial software assistance, and that's true for literally every other human I know.

Retra 8y ago

Some basic knowledge of traction and momentum go a long way. Your car will generally go the way it is heading, as far as it can slide. Every time I see people lose control in the snow and ice, it is because they're driving with their brakes and not their momentum.

bsagdiyev 8y ago

You and the people you know may just not be suited for driving in those conditions. Mountain areas in California have plenty of people capable driving in some serious snow with older cars, ABS is usually the only thing they have, no traction control or other software help. Anecdotal, of course, but so is your comment.

throwawayjava 8y ago
> You and the people you know may just not be suited for driving in those conditions ...northern Wisconsin gets its fair share of snow. > ABS is usually the only thing they have I think you've just agreed with me. ABS and TCS are exactly the systems I was referring to, and most of today's drivers have never encountered a car that doesn't at least have ABS. I've driven a car without ABS or TCS in the snow. It's extremely difficult. Kind of similar to driving a stick shift for the first time. The idea is simple, but getting it into muscle memory enough that you're not constantly making mistakes is non-trivial.

jerkstate 8y ago

I learned to drive on snow and ice in the midwest in a stick-shift car from the '70s.. of course, I would rather have traction control and ABS, but it can certainly be done (and it was for many years before the modern conveniences)

throwawayjava 8y ago
Sure, people could learn how to drive without software assistance. Just like people could learn how to drive a stick shift. But most people (at least in the US) don't know how to drive in a stick shift or how to navigate snow without ABS and TCS.

dsfyu404ed 8y ago

How did people survive before ABS and traction control? It's not that bad. You just dial back your risk taking to reflect the situation.

loeg 8y ago
Frankly, many of them didn't. Highway deaths have come down a lot since the invention of ABS.
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  People not driving drunk less and wearing seat belts more has a heck of a lot more do with it.
  - loeg 8y ago
    I don't disagree. Tons of factors contribute to gradually making highways safer over time.

rjsw 8y ago

Is that with proper winter tyres or not ? With good tyres you can drive in pretty bad conditions.

graycat 8y ago
Snow tires are a big help for getting going. They are much less help for stopping.
- Hamuko 8y ago
  This is so incorrect it hurts.
  - graycat 8y ago
    My point is clear if just consider a little of how snow tires work: The main point is the big bumps in the tread. These big bumps permit spinning drive wheels to dig down in the snow to find some traction, maybe the hard surface below. This digging down has the bumps grab a lot of snow and throw it back and out of the way and let the tires get down, through the snow into some traction. Ordinary tires just spin and throw far too little snow. Works great. But in stopping, there is no such "spinning" or "digging". Instead, all the snow tires can do is roll or slide. So, snow tires help a lot in going but not much in stopping. Typically get into winter car wrecks from not stopping, not from not going. So, once snow tires have you going, be darned careful about stopping -- the risk is not stopping, and snow tires aren't much help because the lugs don't get a chance to dig and throw snow.
    - rjsw 8y ago
      Modern snow tyres don't have big bumps in the tread.
      - graycat 8y ago
        The ones on my car do.
    - 8y ago

Sir_Vival 8y ago

I think everyone should learn how to drive in the snow without ABS and the like - just like I did, and I'm 30. The car was $400, front heavy, and had rear wheel drive Learning when you should be applying gas, when you should simply take your foot off, and when you should brake (rarely!) in icy conditions is hard to learn otherwise.