I find that people on HN frequently use the term "marketing" in the absolute broadest sense of "all activities involved in the process of creating a product tha

I find that people on HN frequently use the term "marketing" in the absolute broadest sense of "all activities involved in the process of creating a product that customers want to buy," but still use it pejoratively as in its narrowest sense of "advertising and other communication intended to convince customers to buy a product."