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You're basically arguing that people should fear for being run out of their jobs or hobbies or both for expressing wrong opinions. That is much greater harm tha

You're basically arguing that people should fear for being run out of their jobs or hobbies or both for expressing wrong opinions. That is much greater harm than the mere knowledge that someone holds opinions that might hurt someones else's feelings. Actions, not words. The Contributor Covenant explicitly legitimizes actionable punishment for the mere possibility of offense towards certain groups (hint, it's always possible).

JoshTriplett 8y ago
People who seek to hurt others will find that others don't want to work with them. Indignance will not change that fact. You cannot force people to put up with you; freedom of association is just as fundamental. Nobody is being run out of a project over the slightest misstep; the first response to most issues will be communication, not bans. Bans from a project are the last resort, not the first. People who work in projects with codes of conduct don't go around afraid they're going to be booted. Beyond that: what work do you need to do that you can't possibly accomplish without hurting people? It's really not hard.
- furgooswft13 8y ago
  > what work do you need to do that you can't possibly accomplish without hurting people? It's really not hard. In that case "be excellent to each other" should be more than enough.
  - JoshTriplett 8y ago
    Long-standing evidence has demonstrated otherwise. Go read the commit message I linked to: https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=8a104f8b5867c682d994ffa7a74093c54469c11f https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/lin... "Explicit guidelines have demonstrated success in other projects and other areas of the kernel." Many people do not start out sharing a common understanding on this topic. This HN thread is more than enough evidence for that. Hence writing down a framework to give people that common understanding.

JoshTriplett 8y ago

People who seek to hurt others will find that others don't want to work with them. Indignance will not change that fact. You cannot force people to put up with you; freedom of association is just as fundamental. Nobody is being run out of a project over the slightest misstep; the first response to most issues will be communication, not bans. Bans from a project are the last resort, not the first. People who work in projects with codes of conduct don't go around afraid they're going to be booted. Beyond that: what work do you need to do that you can't possibly accomplish without hurting people? It's really not hard.

furgooswft13 8y ago
> what work do you need to do that you can't possibly accomplish without hurting people? It's really not hard. In that case "be excellent to each other" should be more than enough.
- JoshTriplett 8y ago
  Long-standing evidence has demonstrated otherwise. Go read the commit message I linked to: https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=8a104f8b5867c682d994ffa7a74093c54469c11f https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/lin... "Explicit guidelines have demonstrated success in other projects and other areas of the kernel." Many people do not start out sharing a common understanding on this topic. This HN thread is more than enough evidence for that. Hence writing down a framework to give people that common understanding.