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Why is this downvoted? The only way to make this change is for people to boycott the service.

by LitFan 8y ago

swarnie_ 8y ago
I'm not even sure why people work there. The warehouses are universally known to be shitty places but people sign up anyway. Surely if its terrible and no one will work there they will have to improve or pay more? Or am i misunderstanding basic economics?
- 394549 8y ago
  > Surely if its terrible and no one will work there they will have to improve or pay more? Or am i misunderstanding basic economics? Your mistake was assuming that this is something that could be understood solely with "basic economics." "Basic economics" is a horribly limited intellectual tool-set that will mislead you if you rely on it too heavily.
  - vixen99 8y ago
    I wouldn't give too much credit to the advanced economics tool set either given the welter of failed predictions made from on high over the years.
- barry-cotter 8y ago
  They will hire anyone. That’s why. If you need a job and you will show up on time all the time and perform to the standard they ask you’ll keep the job too. It’s a crap job but for a lot of people it beats being unemployed.
  - jpindar 8y ago
    But I was told we have zero percent unemployment. /s
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  A lot of people don't have other options so they take whatever they can get in order to survive. Why don't victims of domestic abuse leave immediately but stay for years?
  - swarnie_ 8y ago
    > Why don't victims of domestic abuse leave immediately but stay for years? Yeah never understood that one either if i'm honest.
    - maxxxxx 8y ago
      Maybe it would be good to try to understand the reasons behind this. You may not agree but you may learn that the advice "if they don't like it they can just go somewhere else" is not useful.
    - PostPost 8y ago
      When Kanye West publicly wondered if slaves in the United States made a "choice" to stay in slavery for hundreds of years, he was rightly mocked for being a moron. It's pretty depressing to see the same lack of empathy and critical thinking on hn.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
  - erikpukinskis 8y ago
    Wow. Domestic abuse survivors stay because they don’t have any other options? No. Abusers create an environment of fear where abused believe they have no choices. They separate people from their friends so they think no one cares about them. They convince their victim that no one else will want them. They create an artificial sense that there is no way out. It’s absolutely not the case that abused people are abused because they have no other option. Promoting the idea these people have no choices plays right into the abusers plans.
  - geezerjay 8y ago
- dnomad 8y ago
  You're not misunderstanding anything, the problem is there's really nothing true about the anti-Amazon media propaganda. It's important to separate the media fantasy from the facts in the real world. In the media fantasy: 1. Amazon workers are so desperate for jobs they have no choice but to work for Amazon under prison-like conditions. 2. Amazon warehouse jobs are targeted at "left behind" workers who have no other options. 3. Amazon doesn't pay a living wage. Bezos' luxurious lifestyle is subsidized by taxpayer dollars. In the real world: 1. US unemployment is so low right now that even employers of unskilled labor are looking at severe shortages. See the severe labor shortage in retail but also the real wage pressure across the board. 2. Amazon warehouse jobs are highly sought after. Amazon is unusually generous towards its warehouse associates offering them full benefits including healthcare, retirement, and even equity. Many investors really, really want Amazon to offer benefits comparable to their warehouse competitors (ie no benefits) but Bezos refuses to cut benefits for his unskilled employees every year. 3. America's minimum wage is criminally low but even still Amazon pays well above the minimum wage. All of this obvious to anybody who does even a tiny bit of research [1] but it's not obvious to people who want to be deceived and so they buy into this baseless narrative. Again, this is not about Amazon, or even about workers, this is about a media-political complex in which there is zero accountability. Like most things, from Iraq to China to basic scientific theories like climate change, you'll have to learn to separate the American media-political narrative (which is a fantasy that exists only to justify extreme inequality and the mass-murder of foreign brown people) from the actual facts in the real world. [1] https://www.digitalcommerce360.com/2017/08/08/amazon-benefits-recruiting-warehouse-jobs/ https://www.digitalcommerce360.com/2017/08/08/amazon-benefit...
  - swarnie_ 8y ago
    Thank you for your post, a really different and interesting perspective. I can already tell it won't go down well on this board though.
  - dvfjsdhgfv 8y ago
    > You're not misunderstanding anything, the problem is there's really nothing true about the anti-Amazon media propaganda. It's important to separate the media fantasy from the facts in the real world. I've hear several conflicting reports on this - enough to understand that there is some variation and Amazon doesn't treat all workers the same way. That's why when one person reports inhuman behavior and another calls it bullshit, they're both right.
- s73v3r_ 8y ago
  You're making a lot of assumptions, mainly that people have perfect mobility about where they work, and perfect information about what they're getting into.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

Why is this downvoted? The only way to make this change is for people to boycott the service.

by LitFan 8y ago

Why is this downvoted? The only way to make this change is for people to boycott the service.

I'm not even sure why people work there. The warehouses are universally known to be shitty places but people sign up anyway. Surely if its terrible and no one will work there they will have to improve or pay more? Or am i misunderstanding basic economics?

394549 8y ago
> Surely if its terrible and no one will work there they will have to improve or pay more? Or am i misunderstanding basic economics? Your mistake was assuming that this is something that could be understood solely with "basic economics." "Basic economics" is a horribly limited intellectual tool-set that will mislead you if you rely on it too heavily.
- vixen99 8y ago
  I wouldn't give too much credit to the advanced economics tool set either given the welter of failed predictions made from on high over the years.
barry-cotter 8y ago
They will hire anyone. That’s why. If you need a job and you will show up on time all the time and perform to the standard they ask you’ll keep the job too. It’s a crap job but for a lot of people it beats being unemployed.
- jpindar 8y ago
  But I was told we have zero percent unemployment. /s
maxxxxx 8y ago
A lot of people don't have other options so they take whatever they can get in order to survive. Why don't victims of domestic abuse leave immediately but stay for years?
- swarnie_ 8y ago
  > Why don't victims of domestic abuse leave immediately but stay for years? Yeah never understood that one either if i'm honest.
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    Maybe it would be good to try to understand the reasons behind this. You may not agree but you may learn that the advice "if they don't like it they can just go somewhere else" is not useful.
  - PostPost 8y ago
    When Kanye West publicly wondered if slaves in the United States made a "choice" to stay in slavery for hundreds of years, he was rightly mocked for being a moron. It's pretty depressing to see the same lack of empathy and critical thinking on hn.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
- erikpukinskis 8y ago
  Wow. Domestic abuse survivors stay because they don’t have any other options? No. Abusers create an environment of fear where abused believe they have no choices. They separate people from their friends so they think no one cares about them. They convince their victim that no one else will want them. They create an artificial sense that there is no way out. It’s absolutely not the case that abused people are abused because they have no other option. Promoting the idea these people have no choices plays right into the abusers plans.
- geezerjay 8y ago
dnomad 8y ago
You're not misunderstanding anything, the problem is there's really nothing true about the anti-Amazon media propaganda. It's important to separate the media fantasy from the facts in the real world. In the media fantasy: 1. Amazon workers are so desperate for jobs they have no choice but to work for Amazon under prison-like conditions. 2. Amazon warehouse jobs are targeted at "left behind" workers who have no other options. 3. Amazon doesn't pay a living wage. Bezos' luxurious lifestyle is subsidized by taxpayer dollars. In the real world: 1. US unemployment is so low right now that even employers of unskilled labor are looking at severe shortages. See the severe labor shortage in retail but also the real wage pressure across the board. 2. Amazon warehouse jobs are highly sought after. Amazon is unusually generous towards its warehouse associates offering them full benefits including healthcare, retirement, and even equity. Many investors really, really want Amazon to offer benefits comparable to their warehouse competitors (ie no benefits) but Bezos refuses to cut benefits for his unskilled employees every year. 3. America's minimum wage is criminally low but even still Amazon pays well above the minimum wage. All of this obvious to anybody who does even a tiny bit of research [1] but it's not obvious to people who want to be deceived and so they buy into this baseless narrative. Again, this is not about Amazon, or even about workers, this is about a media-political complex in which there is zero accountability. Like most things, from Iraq to China to basic scientific theories like climate change, you'll have to learn to separate the American media-political narrative (which is a fantasy that exists only to justify extreme inequality and the mass-murder of foreign brown people) from the actual facts in the real world. [1] https://www.digitalcommerce360.com/2017/08/08/amazon-benefits-recruiting-warehouse-jobs/ https://www.digitalcommerce360.com/2017/08/08/amazon-benefit...
- swarnie_ 8y ago
  Thank you for your post, a really different and interesting perspective. I can already tell it won't go down well on this board though.
- dvfjsdhgfv 8y ago
  > You're not misunderstanding anything, the problem is there's really nothing true about the anti-Amazon media propaganda. It's important to separate the media fantasy from the facts in the real world. I've hear several conflicting reports on this - enough to understand that there is some variation and Amazon doesn't treat all workers the same way. That's why when one person reports inhuman behavior and another calls it bullshit, they're both right.
s73v3r_ 8y ago
You're making a lot of assumptions, mainly that people have perfect mobility about where they work, and perfect information about what they're getting into.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]